H.R. 2959, The National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act

Discussion in 'State | National laws and issues 2A and State/ Car' started by jerz_subbie, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. jerz_subbie

    jerz_subbie Member

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    This would be a huge win for gun rights. Your DL is good in every other state, why shouldn't your CHP/CCW be too? Let's make sure we continue to hit our reps to ensure this has a strong support base when the time comes that the media wants start making their "wild Wild West" claims.
     
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  2. WNC Seabee

    WNC Seabee Seriously Likeable
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    As much as I would love to carry in CA, I'm more interested in maintaining, even strengthening, the 10th Amendment.

    I'd be against this.
     
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  3. jerz_subbie

    jerz_subbie Member

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    Understood, but as many here have pointed out before we're a bit past that. Nearly every Amendment has been gutted/violated and those violations ignored by SCOTUS.
     
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  4. Slow Rider

    Slow Rider New Member

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    I am for this. I do not see a state'a right being violated here when that state in question can regulate whether or not to issue CCP to its citizens.
     
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  5. JamesLFlowers

    JamesLFlowers Not Subscribed

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    This would not be about the 10th Amendment. It would be about forcing states to follow the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US Constitution. If we allow them to keep violating it, one day we are going to find ourselves in a deeper mess than we are now.
     
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  6. SPST

    SPST Member

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    That could be a problem too. Some states could decide to not allow CC at all if they didn't want to honor other states. Although I do wish that any CC permit was valid everywhere. I wish the SCOTUS would say that the 2nd Amendment guaranteed our right and that we could exercise CC in all 50 states and DC. But now I'm dreaming.
     
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  7. WNC Seabee

    WNC Seabee Seriously Likeable
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    This is where I contradict myself....I can't decide if it's really a 10th or a 2nd issue. On the one hand, the 2nd should be incorporated and all states required to abide by it...loosening the current restrictions. On the other hand, I am against the Fed Gov telling the states what to do outside their enumerated authority.
     
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  8. drypowder

    drypowder Club Subscribed
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    While I agree with that, it seems this would provide gun control advocates an avenue to create a federal database. Also, once we pave the way for federal control of CC, what happens when we have a Democratic House, Senate, and White House?
     
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  9. Slow Rider

    Slow Rider New Member

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    I have to politely disagree. If the federal government passed a law to allow CCP rights as universal, IMO that would strengthen 2A. There is a reason NRA is supportive of this.

    As for having a dem controlled government, we were in that environment. Maybe I am naive but I'd like to think that our constitution is stronger than the lackeys representing us. The beauty of the process is that we can have an influence on the governance of our country by choosing who represents us. I will personally not vote for someone that is anti 2A.
     
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  10. 11B3XCIB

    11B3XCIB Club Subscribed
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    The right to carry in all States that issue a CWP is the "give". Whatever the "take " from the other side will be scares me . They don't just allow us stuff like this. I'm with DryPowder on this...I think it'll be an avenue to lose rights elsewhere like in the form of a national database. If we can carry nationally, they'll want to know what's being carried... Or something along those lines.
     
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  11. drypowder

    drypowder Club Subscribed
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    No, we do not have a fully Dem controlled federal government (the U.S. House). You'll know when we do because that's when we will have:
    1. so-called universal background checks that eliminate undocumented private sales and put every firearms transaction on a federal 4473 (which will be the precursor for a registry)
    2. a new AWB, harsher than the first one and without an expiration date
    3. magazine capacity restrictions
    4. whatever else they can dream up and pass

    For those who doubt this, consider that the Democratic party is not the Democratic party of the Clinton era or earlier. The party is controlled by the progressives today. And gun control (and eventual ban/confiscation) is a priority for them.
     
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  12. myst173

    myst173 Member

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    You need to be careful what you wish for on this one. What you'll more than likely end up with is a nationwide carry program, that meets the requirements of all the states, including the may issue with all their restrictions. What looks like a win will really turn into a loss as it will make it harder to acquire a CCW in states that it was previously easy to acquire in.

    We're (the people in more gun friendly states) are better off with what we have now and keeping the feds out of this.

    The gov, under our buddy Barry is dedicated to pushing gun control, if they can't get new laws pushed through banning it, then they try twisting whatever is on the books to suit their needs. Take the BATFE's open comments right now on upping the requirements for a trust.. has a single violation occurred which resulted in prosecution, NO, they say so themselves, but it "might make it safer" so you'll see that go in effect, all without a vote. Things like this will be twisted around just as much.

    And if you say it can't happen, that laws meant to protect gun ownership can't be twisted to restrict it, take a look at how the civilian sales of new machine guns was restricted in 86, it was added onto a bill protecting hunting rights, firearm ownership, private transfer of weapons, etc. in the late hours of the night without a full body of representatives being present and passed without an actual counted vote. That law is illegal because of the way it was passed, yet here it is in 2013 and it's still impossible for me to go buy a full auto scar. And that was passed through a gun friendly house and senate, think of what they'd try to do today.
     
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  13. Noway2

    Noway2 Member

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    I am near 100% certain that there was a recent SCOTUS case that did incorporate the 2nd. The problem is that some states are violating it while claiming that restricting it into non-existence, e.g. good cause clauses, is not an infringement.

    Illinois tried doing this. I have read several times that having no carry options is a 2nd violation. From what I gather they must have either open or concealed carry, but not necessarily both. It is certainly a quagmire.

    In my view, the Feds are culpable in creating the current mess and like it or not, it is going to take fed effort to clean it up. A simple rule, such as saying states must recognize each others permits, while not getting involved in the permitting process would be a good thing.
     
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  14. jcalvinmarks

    jcalvinmarks Not Subscribed

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    That's a little like trying to drive from Raleigh to Atlanta, getting lost along the way, seeing a sign that says "Welcome to Tennessee," and then deciding that you might as well go see Memphis.

    Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt and say that Congress really wants to do something positive with this bill, our recent history is littered with well-intentioned laws that are each a giant millstone around our collective necks (Americans with Disabilities Act, Obamacare, No Child Left Behind, etc. etc. etc.).
     
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  15. trcubed

    trcubed Lifetime Member
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    My fear is that establishing a law like 2959 would be the first step to the constitutional elimination of the Second Amendment. Why would we need that pesky old Amendment when we have this fresh, progressive, all-encompassing law to take its place?

    The current ilk of pols also knows that laws can easily be made more restrictive after enactment thru judicial interpretation.

    The Second Amendment, as originally written and intended, actually is our national carry law.
     
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  16. BurnedOutGeek

    BurnedOutGeek SlayerNut - RIP
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    Or worse yet, via the executive branch...
     
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  17. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    The thing that scares me about H.R. 2959 is what the most prominent anti-gun politicians say about a national concealed carry law.

    Diane Feinstein: "...require nearly every state to accept the concealed carry gun permits issued by other states—regardless of the permit standards in either state" and "...chips away at gun safety standards and undermines states’ rights."

    Chuck Schumer: "...particularly dangerous to New York, which applies some of the most thorough background screenings on concealed carry permit applicants in the country," "...many states have weaker conceal and carry laws" and "...create serious problems for law enforcement officers, who are unable to verify permits granted by other states because there is no national database."

    In short, Feinstein and Schumer are not categorically rejecting a nationwide concealed carry law, but saying that such a law should be based on all states meeting the requirements of the states (i.e. CA and NY) with the most stringent standards AND having strong federal participation in the process (e.g. a national database).

    Even if a "clean" law was passed initially, we already have a clear indication of how the anti-gun faction would be trying to change it over time.
     
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  18. Noway2

    Noway2 Member

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    Those two loud mouth imbeciles are only 2 of 50 voices in the Senate. There are plenty of others, enough so that reason can prevail. Just not with the current Senate makeup.
     
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  19. diablos30

    diablos30 Club Subscribed
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    i thought national reciprocity was already passed on 15 Dec 1791, why the need to do so again?
     
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  20. trcubed

    trcubed Lifetime Member
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    My thoughts exactly.
     
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