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Thread: ACA / medical providers asking about gun ownership

  1. #1

    ACA / medical providers asking about gun ownership


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    Saw a new provider recently. When a member of the support staff was gathering information, I asked if she was ready for the ACA when it " kicked-in " on 1-1-14. She was apprehensive re all the information she would have to ask and in particular, about gun ownership. When I told her jokingly that if she asked me that, I would say none of your business. She laughed and said she wished she was asking that now because she would put that down because she , like me, thought it was no ones business.

    Now after thinking about that I am beginning to wonder what would happen if I did say that? Would a federal LEO appear on my doorstep wanting to pursue this further? Does anyone know who reviews this information or what happens if you acknowledge gun ownership?

    I am thinking that any response is speculation but it does concern me. I was trained that honesty is the best policy and I hate to start telling lying now but I fear that honesty re gun ownership will come back to bite me you know where.

    Jim

  2. #2
    The future of that line of questioning has to do with a cross referencing of EVERYTHING you have ever been prescribed or diagnosed with. Cali and NYC are already knocking on doors. Let's be reminiscent of Nancy Reagan's campaign of the 80's....

    "Just Say No"

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  3. #3
    There have been several threads about this topic; these questions come from a 1990's campaign for child safety in the home pushed by the pediatricians. The POWERS THAT BE got them included in the health questions that should be asked for a comprehensive physical exam/well-baby check-up. The HITEC Act and ACA have now codified them. As 1911gobang intimated, it's only a matter of time before your electronic health record - which will include these questions - is cross-referenced with all sorts of databases.

    To be honest, I do not think that concern is "tinfoil hat-ish." Imagine: you are having a bad time in your marriage and ask your doctor for something to "calm me down so I can sleep." Your doctor writes a prescription and adds the diagnostic codes for the problem so that the insurance company will pay for your prescription. Here are the ICDM 10 descriptions for the codes: Z63.5 - Marital Discord/Conflict, F51.02 Insomnia/Adjustment Disorder and F43.22 Anxiety/Adjustment Disorder. This problem has been accurately coded - which will be increasingly necessary for your insurance to pay for the visit and your medicines or diagnostic tests. Your electronic health record is now tagged with these diagnoses and eventually will be interconnected, searchable and personally identifiable by government agencies and researchers. Somebody tell me how long it will take for this information to be added to the NICS database?

    So you apply for a pistol permit or CCH, and it pops up that you are having marital problems, difficulty sleeping and adjustment issues.

    Think you'll get your CCH?

    There are plenty of doctors who do not think you should with those diagnoses. Plenty of politicians, too. Plenty of my neighbors would agree. What do you think? Are these questions a good thing? (They will save innocent lives!) Or a bad thing? (They are intrusive, unnecessary and arbitrarily deny people their 2nd Amendment rights simply for asking for help!)

    Maybe "Just say no" is pretty good advice after all.
    The power of accurate observation is often called "cynicism" by those who do not have it.
    - Sir George Bernard Shaw

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    - Mr. Jefferson

  4. #4
    OEF 10-11 Pistoleer Classified Feedback: 26 backwoodsshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJSC View Post
    Totally disagree. And the mom looks like she put botox in her coffee every morning.
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    And used offset cantaloupes for her tit job.

  5. #5
    The ABC store does not yet require an Rx for my anxiety management.

    Thankfully.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    I agree, just say no. There are a lot of questions Docs are starting to ask that I consider none of their business. For instance, if I go in for a cold, it's none of their business if I'm getting along OK with my husband. If I were to go in with a black eye, then I could see the reason for the question. I have no issue with a Doc asking a question that is pertinent to my reason for a visit or to check on an on going condition. What I do have an issue with is them butting into every single aspect of my life. IMO, this is all getting entirely too personal. And they are hounding people with the same questions visit after visit. My hubby's doc asks every visit if he smokes. Well he hasn't and doesn't but she must never put that in his records or read the records because she asks every single time he goes in. On the other hand, she never asks me. And I don't smoke but I do find it strange she hounds him with a question she never asks me. He actually could recite her entire routine. So just saying no is the best policy in my opinion on more than one question that comes from doctors.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jimintheburg View Post
    Saw a new provider recently. When a member of the support staff was gathering information, I asked if she was ready for the ACA when it " kicked-in " on 1-1-14. She was apprehensive re all the information she would have to ask and in particular, about gun ownership. When I told her jokingly that if she asked me that, I would say none of your business. She laughed and said she wished she was asking that now because she would put that down because she , like me, thought it was no ones business.

    Now after thinking about that I am beginning to wonder what would happen if I did say that? Would a federal LEO appear on my doorstep wanting to pursue this further? Does anyone know who reviews this information or what happens if you acknowledge gun ownership?

    I am thinking that any response is speculation but it does concern me. I was trained that honesty is the best policy and I hate to start telling lying now but I fear that honesty re gun ownership will come back to bite me you know where.

    Jim
    They would most likely mark ya down as a gunowner. Much like how I refuse to list my race in applications, but when I meet someone in person they will mark down "albino" (say for a bank loan)
    When you have the wolf by the ears, sometimes it is just as hard to let go, as hold on.

    Illusion is a slight of hand. A trick. Canít blame the ones who fall for it. But those who know itís a trick and still believe it, thatís delusion.

  9. #9
    Thanks to all of you for your comments and in particular, gutdoc. I don't know how I missed previous postings. To protect myself, I am going to say no.

    Jim

  10. #10
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    I have yet to see 1 question, where we ask clients about firearm ownership. Not a single question. We use electronic devices, and they are updated daily. Gutdoc is correct, we have direct access to some clients' entire health history because that payor source wants the documentation of your visit encounter.

    IMO, the focus will be on your rx medication, and Gutdoc mention the ICD codes.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by gutdoc View Post
    There have been several threads about this topic; these questions come from a 1990's campaign for child safety in the home pushed by the pediatricians. The POWERS THAT BE got them included in the health questions that should be asked for a comprehensive physical exam/well-baby check-up. The HITEC Act and ACA have now codified them. As 1911gobang intimated, it's only a matter of time before your electronic health record - which will include these questions - is cross-referenced with all sorts of databases.

    To be honest, I do not think that concern is "tinfoil hat-ish." Imagine: you are having a bad time in your marriage and ask your doctor for something to "calm me down so I can sleep." Your doctor writes a prescription and adds the diagnostic codes for the problem so that the insurance company will pay for your prescription. Here are the ICDM 10 descriptions for the codes: Z63.5 - Marital Discord/Conflict, F51.02 Insomnia/Adjustment Disorder and F43.22 Anxiety/Adjustment Disorder. This problem has been accurately coded - which will be increasingly necessary for your insurance to pay for the visit and your medicines or diagnostic tests. Your electronic health record is now tagged with these diagnoses and eventually will be interconnected, searchable and personally identifiable by government agencies and researchers. Somebody tell me how long it will take for this information to be added to the NICS database?

    So you apply for a pistol permit or CCH, and it pops up that you are having marital problems, difficulty sleeping and adjustment issues.

    Think you'll get your CCH?

    There are plenty of doctors who do not think you should with those diagnoses. Plenty of politicians, too. Plenty of my neighbors would agree. What do you think? Are these questions a good thing? (They will save innocent lives!) Or a bad thing? (They are intrusive, unnecessary and arbitrarily deny people their 2nd Amendment rights simply for asking for help!)

    Maybe "Just say no" is pretty good advice after all.
    Well stated and thanks for taking the time to write it. I agree, just say no.
    With that being said, I understand that human nature has a way of filtering fairness through oneís own views and desired outcome...
    Author unknown

  12. #12
    It is only a matter of time before the wires cross, gang. Especially where federal issues come into play such as suppressors, SBR's etc.
    Someday, ALL of your pertinent info will be available to any fed agency that wants it. Remember, the Alphabet Gangs have already been caught wiretapping and reading emails.

    And, FYI....
    The gestapo is already confiscating in CA and NY. It's coming. Eventually....

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  13. #13
    My doc and I had this conversation. He doesn't ask; he doesn't care. My wife tells the pediatricians "no" regarding any gun-related questions. In the ED I never asked.

  14. #14
    Maybe we should consider that there is no good answer. For example, f you admit to firearm ownership, you may wind up in gutdoc's hypothetical situation. Then again if you just say "no," what happens if you get that permit, and buy that gun... and some altruistic agent acting in the best interests of everybody, everywhere happens to notice the contradiction between what you told the doc and the box you checked on Form 4473, that you are the in fact the owner of the firearm you're paying for? You've lied to one of the entities--your (Federally-monitored) insurance company or the ATF. Okay, that could be problematic, too. So instead, you tell the doctor "I'm not going to answer that." Hmm. You're mighty evasive, aren't you? Maybe that's probable cause for further investigation.

    Just 'cause you're paranoid...

  15. #15
    I was called "silly" for asking questions about doctors that were like minded and had my libertarian/conservative views. I sought out doctors that did have my views and found one I liked. The day could just be around the corner that we will be bartering for our health care.

    http://ethicalnag.org/2013/07/30/barter/

    There are two types of health care trades that are growing. These are direct exchanges, where the provider and patient work out specific deals if the provider is open to bartering directly with patients, in person or through sites like Craigslist. And there are barter exchanges, in which member clients earn and receive points or “trade dollars.”

    These exchanges allow members to trade goods and services with other exchange members, generally for these trade dollars. They can then use those dollars to pay a health care provider who also belongs to the exchange. There are now about 400 such exchanges in the United States.

    Rob Benson, vice president of ITEX, one of the largest U.S. examples of the latter, says that dentists, optometrists, chiropractors and podiatrists are among the most popular swapping specialties. He claims:

    “Health care is definitely one of the most widely used services.”
    www.peacebetothishouse.com

    James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

    Things are that way for a reason. A picture of a gun or a t-shirt with a gun or a pastry shaped into a gun isn't a danger to anyone, but it is a threat to the ideology that the government should have a monopoly on violence. This is about indoctrination. drypowder 2013

  16. #16
    three ideas:
    1. tell your health care provider: "that question is a boundary violation".
    exactly those words. they will recognize them from the malpractice seminar.
    2. when someone --who shouldn't--asks me about my guns, i respond:
    "why? do you want to buy some?"
    3. finally, the smart-aleck answers to the question: "do you have guns at home?"
    a. doesn't everybody?
    b. no. i brought them all with me.
    c. well, they were there when i left this morning.
    The road to Hell is paved.

  17. #17
    "Do you own a gun?"
    "Nope."

  18. #18
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    For what its worth, as part of the process of getting weight loss surgery, my wife and I have recently seen more doctors, including psychologists, than you can shake a stick at. None of them asked about firearms.

  19. #19
    I discuss guns with my Doc everytime I go. Last appointment he ordered a shoulder rig & a IWB for his Colt Commander. The appointment before that we discussed night vision. Oh yeah & he renewed my Vicodin & Ellavil.

    Curt
    Then stand to your glasses, steady; Here's a health to those we prize. Here's a toast to the dead already, And here's to the next who dies. By CAPT. Patrick Thorpe, Kentucky

  20. #20

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Inebriated View Post
    "Do you own a gun?"
    "Nope."
    Come to think of it, this answer would be perfectly straightforward and honest coming from me.

    I do not, in fact, own "a" gun.

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