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Thread: A real tactical class questioner

  1. #1

    A real tactical class questioner


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    How many of you would want to take a set of classes each set three days long and they covered all of these following topics and a lot more:
    • Land navigation
    • Individual and buddy team tactics
    • 3-4 person group tactics
    • 7-9 person group tactics
    • 28-36 person group tactics
    • Learn how to conduct a foot patrol


    And a lot more basic infantry tactics. Now this course would be in the field for three days, under the stars learning day and night.

    So would you want to do this in 2012?
    John Boyette
    Chief Compliance Officer
    War Sport Ind .LLC

    Owner and Instructor
    Trace Armory Group .LLC
    919-428-5265

  2. #2
    I would be interested but not willing to travel more than 2 hrs away to go.
    I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

  3. #3
    Would definitely be interested if the cost was right.

  4. #4
    Dependent on cost and progress in improving my personal fitness (more like fatness!) I would definitely be interested.

    What would we use for weapon physreps? Airsoft?
    Evil looms. Cowboy up. Kill it. Get paid.

    +55 trader rating from CSF (although I think that is shy about 20 from what it was before they pulled the plug.....)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by NCLivingBrit View Post
    Dependent on cost and progress in improving my personal fitness (more like fatness!) I would definitely be interested.

    What would we use for weapon physreps? Airsoft?

    great question.

    Cost its $600 for three days of training (fri, sat, sun) or (sat, sun, mon) type days of the week. Since this is a three part class I would do the first third 2 times a year, the second 3rd twice and the last 3rd once a year.

    No weapons, we will provide red / blue guns no need for them at the learning part of the class. to much info to take in and deal with someone getting shot or a loss of a real / high dollar airsoft weapon. Once we get enough students done on level 3 the FoF would roll in to airsoft and live fire drills for alumni events only.

    As far as cost goes, its cheap for 3 days, two nights, all meals and water provided and no extra travel to and from hotel or extra costs due to the staying out all night aspect of this training. Once you get on site you stay on site for the whole time and train, train, train.

    Once I get the info up on the website you guys will like it if you see a need for real training like this.

    John
    John Boyette
    Chief Compliance Officer
    War Sport Ind .LLC

    Owner and Instructor
    Trace Armory Group .LLC
    919-428-5265

  6. #6
    Thanks for the info. The cost of electric airsoft has definitely come down to the point where they could be considered a consumable for something like this.

    I used to help run/plot a mil-sim airsoft LARP (Live Action Role Play) loosely based on the Stargate universe called Contact back in the UK and we found that using magazines with realistic capacities and by having a weight "penalty" for each round of ammo carried (basically a load of 240rds required you to carry the same weight as that much 5.56, usually in the form of diving weights in extra mag pouches) we got some pretty rough lessons in the fun things about firefights. Things like 240rds -sounds- like a lot, but at 3am in the dark in a messy ambush you can piss it away in no time at all, even on semi-auto. Also grenades kill everyone, not just the people you wanted to kill (we used a small thunderflash in a paper-mache shell filled with 500 6mm airsoft BB's, very nasty indoors). I learned to ditch lasers and flashlights early on because all they seem to do is mark you as someone who really needs to get shot repeatedly. We had procedures for reacting to wounds (always scream and fall over, then depended on the location of the wound), treating wounded and handling/moving casualties and it was generally a lot of fun without just being "guys in the woods with toy guns". For instance I now know I am basically dead meat in any sort of actual firefight other than defending prepared positions.

    Here's a link to Contact. Dean is a great guy and has a lot of experience running mil-sim airsoft combat. He is also almost totally blind and still got out into the field and made some good "kills".

    http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk/CONTACT.htm
    Evil looms. Cowboy up. Kill it. Get paid.

    +55 trader rating from CSF (although I think that is shy about 20 from what it was before they pulled the plug.....)

  7. #7
    Absolutely interested. Been looking for something like this on the civilian side for years.

    Any idea when you'd start?
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see. --Ayn Rand

  8. #8
    I think this would be a good idea. I don't think it would be everyone's cup of tea, but I think it would appeal to a pretty broad spectrum. Lots of good shooting schools around NC, but none that offer whats being discussed here that I know of.

    I had a conversation with John earlier today, and he mentioned this. He has left some cool details that would add to his original post. One being the venue. A couple thousand acres of private property would be plenty big enough to either get lost, or exercise the skills being taught.
    "Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt will always glorify the hunters."

  9. #9
    I'd love to take that kind of class if I could find the time and money for it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dorton View Post
    A couple thousand acres of private property would be plenty big enough to either get lost, or exercise the skills being taught.
    We regularly had a whole day of two 20 or 30 man "units" hunting each other over a couple of hundred acres, about 30% urban (the former Greenham Common cruise missile base near Reading, we had the run of the ghost town the air force guys used to live in). You could go all day without contacting the enemy and lose contact very easily, especially in town.
    Evil looms. Cowboy up. Kill it. Get paid.

    +55 trader rating from CSF (although I think that is shy about 20 from what it was before they pulled the plug.....)

  11. #11
    sounds great but $600 is alot of cash

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyb313 View Post
    sounds great but $600 is alot of cash
    3 full days of a lot of training and well worth the $600
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyb313 View Post
    sounds great but $600 is alot of cash
    It is, but its a lot of value. This is going to be closer to a 60-70 hour class. Thats <$10/hr, and no ammo, food, or room and board to factor in.
    "Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt will always glorify the hunters."

  14. #14
    I would love to take a class like this but it's going to be a while before I'd be able to scrounge up the money. That and having 3 young children doesn't give me much spare time.

  15. #15
    I would do this except, I'd want facilities and to sleep inside. I'm not opposed to camping, but most civilians aren't built for 48-72 grueling hours.

    While it needs to be taken seriously, I'd still consider a sort of vacation, so I'd like some rest.

    Also, I don't like trudging through woods without a firearm but I understand the concern of X number of people in the woods with guns.

  16. #16
    While I wouldn't mind polishing up on land nav, the last time I did this I was payed to do it. Not sure I would pay to do it.

  17. #17
    All of you bring up great points.

    9mm_Lvr, trust me sir, this class will not be for you at all then. We will be walking any distance from 3 to 9 miles in 3 days, staying out for every single second rain, snow, sun.

    Thanks for the feedback posters, I went half cocked on this post. Let me post the first two 3 day classes right now so you can see what I am talking about. Keep in mind there are drafts, so you all can see the detail I am talking about.



    Block 1 of training
    This first section is a 3 day field training exercise. That is 100% done in the outdoors, rain, shine, snow or whatever else hits. Every student is graded; your grade is based upon your own abilities to accomplish each tasking. The tasks we will teach you are based on individual movement in the field and personal responsibility in a high stress, dynamic environment if you ever find yourself involved in such a place.

    Skills to be taught:
    Day and night land navigation
    Individual and buddy team tactical movement
    Troop-Leading Procedures
    Operation Order Format

    More detail on what to expect:

    Day and night land navigation:
    Overview of Maps
    Key Points When Working with Maps
    General Types of Maps
    Map Legend and Symbols
    Reading Topographic Maps and Making Calculations
    Reading the Margins
    Interpreting Contour Lines
    Estimating Slope
    Estimating Distances
    Using a Compass and Clinometer
    Parts of a Compass
    Tips on Getting Accurate Compass Readings
    Adjusting a Compass for Magnetic Declination
    Orienting a Compass
    Taking Bearings (Direct and Back)
    Following Bearings
    Estimating Slope with a Clinometer
    Pace count
    Orienting Maps
    Measuring a Bearing on a Map
    Plotting Points on a Map using Latitude/Longitude
    Plotting Points on a Map using UTM
    Estimating Your Own Position Location
    Estimating Unknown Position Locations
    Estimating Distance on the Ground

    Individual and buddy team tactical movement
    3-5 second rush
    Buddy team bounding over watch
    High craw
    Low craw

    Troop-Leading Procedures you will learn how to perform each of these tasks

    1. Receive the mission.
    2. Issue a warning order.
    3. Make a tentative plan.
    4. Start necessary movement.
    5. Reconnoiter.
    6. Complete the plan.
    7. Issue the complete order.
    8. Supervise.

    Operation Order Format you will learn how to perform each of these tasks

    1. Situation
    2. Mission
    3. Execution
    4. Service and support
    5. Command and signal

    As you can see, this is not a shooting course, its not needed. You will learn the beginning aspects of how to navigate you and others across ground, how to conduct yourself under fire, and how to develop a mission.

    All of these tasks are needed for when you come to the Small group training course.
    Ok, here is block 2 of 3 days.
    Small Group Training

    The Small Group Training course is designed to build upon the last training topics of:
    Day and night land navigation
    Individual and buddy team tactical movement
    Troop-Leading Procedures
    Operation Order Format

    These last training topics flow in to the Small Group Training topics each day will have a unique topic to cover. On the last day of training Trace Armory Group will combine all the tasks of the courses in one field training exercise starting the last night and rolling in to the last day of training.

    The topics in the Small Group Training course will include:

    3-4 person Fire team size formations
    Wedge
    File
    Team line

    6-9 person Squad size formations
    Wedge
    File
    Squad line

    Actions at danger areas team and squad

    PATROLLING
    Planning considerations
    Organization
    Initial planning and coordination
    Completion of the plan
    Departure from friendly lines
    Rally points
    Leader's reconnaissance of the objective
    Reentry of friendly lines
    Debriefing

    Reconnaissance Patrol
    Organization
    Zone reconnaissance
    Route Reconnaissance

    Combat Patrol
    Organization
    Hasty ambush
    Deliberate ambush
    Point ambush

    Objective rally point
    Site selection
    Planning considerations
    Objective rally point occupation
    Objective rally point activities

    Tactical training:
    Squad attack
    React to contact
    Break contact
    React to ambush
    I hope the clear's the air.
    John Boyette
    Chief Compliance Officer
    War Sport Ind .LLC

    Owner and Instructor
    Trace Armory Group .LLC
    919-428-5265

  18. #18
    Hmmm ... that all sounds vaguely familiar. I have a Benning 'Blue Book' around here somewhere.




    See your local recruiter and you can do this and GET PAID! Just tell him you want 11X, that you want four years of it, and that you'd like to leave tonight. :biggrin:
    Lt Col (Ret.) Allen West in 2016

    Earnestly learning why lotsa eye relief on a scoped Remington 7600 carbine in .35 Whelen is a very good idea.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Boyette View Post
    [*]Individual and buddy team tactics[*]3-4 person group tactics[*]Learn how to conduct a foot patrol[/list]
    these would be the ones id love to learn
    Turning Cover into Concealment Since 1947

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Snakum View Post
    Hmmm ... that all sounds vaguely familiar. I have a Benning 'Blue Book' around here somewhere.




    See your local recruiter and you can do this and GET PAID! Just tell him you want 11X, that you want four years of it, and that you'd like to leave tonight. :biggrin:
    spot on the money.

    Lets face it, less then 5% of adults served in the military. Of that 5% less then 2% are combat arms.

    So that is 98% of grown adults that have zero, to no tactical training that works.

    most if not all of you at some point think about when the sh!t hits the fan, reading tactics, and looking over charts is not the same as doing it in the woods.

    If you guys think this is for you, then when this class goes live sign up. If you think your physical condition will prevent you from coming, over weight, no cardio stamina right now. Well you got a goal, get to that point an come on out.

    If that is you, and you see a need for this class, god help you if what you fear happens between now and when you are "ready"

    John
    John Boyette
    Chief Compliance Officer
    War Sport Ind .LLC

    Owner and Instructor
    Trace Armory Group .LLC
    919-428-5265

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