castle doctrine question

Discussion in 'Concealed Carry | National 2A Laws' started by Hybrid Moments Pass, Nov 25, 2016.

  1. Hybrid Moments Pass

    Hybrid Moments Pass Active Member

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    Im asking this because I know there are some here who have really studied this and will help me save a little time.

    As I understood it, Castle Doctrine meant that you could protect yourself from an intruder, in your home or vehicle.

    If someone is busting through your front door or window etc, what steps must you take to be covered by this? If a man, or woman, has busted the glass in my door and are forcing their way in, must I inform them of my firearm? Do I need to do anything before defending myself?

    I ask because Ive never looked into it and wanted to be prepared if something were to come up.
    We are supposed to be prepared and ready for a variety of situations, this is one where I'd like to be prepared. This is a topic I know little about, never put a lot of thought into it, but its been on my mind the last week or so.

    Thank you, ahead of time, for any help and advice you can offer from your person experiences and research

    Stay safe out there today if youre going BF shopping!
     
  2. 9outof10mms

    9outof10mms Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    As it is stored in my memory bank, there is no duty to inform, nor retreat. Once they've begun illegally entering your home, lethal force is justified. There used to be a bunch of criteria the bad guy had to meet and/or you had to catch them doing while breaking and entering. That was all abolished with the Castle Doctrine updates.

    I am unclear about whether it extends to your vehicle (while occupied).
     
  3. Chihuahua Floyd

    Chihuahua Floyd Member

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    Vehicle same as a home because for more people than you know, the car is their home. If they are TRYING to break in lethal force is justified.
    Your example of breaking glass in door means you can go straight to lethal force.
    Potential intruder no longer has to cross threshold, but any holes still need to be in their front side.
    I will be traveling in a couple of hours and will have at least one pistol easy to hand and visible as I am waiting on concealed permit as I type.
    CF
     
  4. JamesLFlowers

    JamesLFlowers Well-Known Member

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    Remember, it depends on what state you are in. The self defense laws of each state differ, sometimes radically. This is why I have always recommended that gun owners take a reputable CCW class to learn the laws of their state.
     
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  5. Harold Pressley

    Harold Pressley Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Statutory law (castle doctrine), protects one while in their home, work place, and or motor vehicle. As NC laws reads you have no duty to retreat or inform.
     
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  6. MurphyLong

    MurphyLong Platinum Member

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    I was taught in my course that if you have reason to believe they intend to commit a felony, lethal force is justified, including, but not limited to shooting through your door/window/threshold.

    Growing up I was also taught that dead men don't talk.
     
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  7. Catfish

    Catfish 'Murica! eh? Club Subscribed

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    Just my 2c and how I have prepared myself...

    Be prepared to articulate that:
    - I was in fear for my life
    - I defended myself
    - there is the evidence (untampered by you)
    - Lawyer.

    None of that is part of castle doctrine. Castle Doctrine yes/no will be answered at some point after your interaction with responding officers. Treat it like any self defense shooting until then.
     
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  8. 12151791

    12151791 Member

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    IMO don't say a word besides I can't breathe, I need to get to a hospital. By then, lawyer is available to assist


    Sent from my NSA enabled iPad using Crapatalk
     
  9. dmarbell

    dmarbell Behold...the "Mallet O' Understanding..."

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  10. Noway2

    Noway2 Well-Known Member

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    The key is they are unlawfully committing or have committed a forcible entry.
     
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  11. J.Boyette

    J.Boyette Teacher of the Craft Lifetime Member

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    No other property has the same value as your home. A attack on your home is the same as a attack on your person, if you are in the home.

    It's easy to understand that if i break in the dwelling I can hurt you. This is not a castle doctrine point of view, it's simple self defense.
     
  12. Brian K

    Brian K Corporate Scapegoat Club Subscribed

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    This. Right here.

    Then:

    Followed by:

    ยท Move

    The prep has idiot friends/family who believe YOU are the BG.
     
  13. Chdamn

    Chdamn Staff VP of Shenanigans Lifetime Member Vendor Club Subscribed

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    I used to be in NC that you could use deadly force to prevent entry but once they were inside you had to meet the requirements for deadly force i.e. Fear low life or grave bodily harm. In SC the opposite was true. Once inside you could use deadly force but you could not use deadly force to prevent entry.

    Now we have a castle doctrine. It states that if someone is trying to break in or has gained entry to your home, car or place of business and they are not supposed to be there you can legally assume they are there to cause you grace injury or death. Your curtiledge is included.

    So you don't have to be home at the time of the break in. If you come home and people are inside your home that do not have permission to be there you can assume the worst and use deadly force. You have no duty to retreat or inform.

    As with all things though there is the letter of the law and the interpretation of that law. So as others have said it's good idea to clam up u Gil speaking with a lawyer and not a good idea to shoot out the window at someone breaking into your car or shed. While the letter of the law says you're covered it could be interpreted as defense of property which isn't allowed.
     
  14. nowhere-man

    nowhere-man Member

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    From what I remember from "Law of self-defense in North Carolina" by John Rubin and further articles written by John after Castle Doctrine was introduced:
    1) To be in reasonable fear of serious injury of death is one of requirements to claim self-defense
    2) There are few situations when "fear of..." considered to be reasonable "by default", i.e. you don't have to proof it:
    a) When intruder forcibly enters a house, a car or an office, that belongs to defendant of where defendant can legally be (i.e. rentals covered as well) [this is the core of what it is called a Castle Doctrine].
    b) When arson/arson attempt of occupied dwelling.

    This is not a legal opinion or advice, of course. However, I highly recommend the book. That would help to understand how legal kitchen works and, in many things, it appears to be way different from how it is usually explained in popular articles.
     
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  15. SR_NC

    SR_NC Registered Member

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    It would be good for you to obtain and read a copy of the NC Statute. Note, that the way it's written, you have a rebuttable presumption that deadly force was justified if someone is unlawfully AND forcefully entering (or had entered) your home. You do not have an absolute right so do make good choices.

    Highly recommend you take a CCH class. As you consider different class I encourage you to contact the instructor and ask how much time they spend on NC law. I generally spend at least 4 hours. (Course only requires 2 hours - but I don't know how you can cover everything in just 2 hours.)
     
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  16. Goofyfoot2001

    Goofyfoot2001 Active Member

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    At any hostile encounter, always yell loudly, "I am in fear for my life!" Even if it's the paper boy demanding his money :) Be covered!
     
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  17. tsconver

    tsconver Sponsor Club Subscribed

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    I would disagree with this one, I am assuming an empty home, if you know a family member is home then yes CD applies. You cannot use deadly force to prevent or stop a robbery. If someone is in your home when you come home and they are unarmed and walking out the door with a tv or standing in your bedroom sniffing your underwear you cannot shoot them. Same thing as walking out of Walmart and someone is stealing your car, you cannot shoot them.

    If you walk into your home and they have a weapon (armed robbery) or make a threatening act towards you (that meets the criteria for use of deadly force) then deadly force could be authorized.

    Castle Doctrine is very explicit in they are breaking in and you are occupying for it to take effect.

    Furthermore if you come home and your door is kicked in, unless you have family inside and fear for their life why would you not call the police and just wait and let them clear the house, that is what they get paid to do.
     
  18. Chdamn

    Chdamn Staff VP of Shenanigans Lifetime Member Vendor Club Subscribed

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    I was pretty clear that defense of property is not covered. I said if you enter your home and there are people there without permission, meaning they had broken in.

    I don't know about your house but there are a couple points of entry into mine. I may not notice that a side or rear window has been broken or even if the front door has been broken into as I park in the garage and enter the home that way.

    If I walk into my home and there are people inside I will be in fear for my life. If they jump out the door I will not give chase or follow.
     
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  19. tsconver

    tsconver Sponsor Club Subscribed

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    I agree with you on that point. I also updated my post to state it was for an empty house. If you have family at home then it definitely applies.

    As far as walking into a house that is occupied by a stranger that does not belong, I bet it would be very grey. Again if you walk in and they are carrying a TV and you shoot them you could have some explaining to do. If they are carrying a weapon then again deadly force is authorized. Could be a very grey area if it is just a person in your house with no weapon.
     
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  20. B00GER

    B00GER Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    I just shoot anyone who comes in, invited or not, can never be too sure. I only use a .25 though, so sometimes they don't even know I did it.
     
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  21. dmarbell

    dmarbell Behold...the "Mallet O' Understanding..."

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    Your response seems reasonable, but a literal reading of the statute doesn't agree with what you are saying:

    (b) The lawful occupant of a home, motor vehicle, or workplace is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily harm to another if both of the following apply:
    (1) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a home, motor vehicle, or workplace, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the home, motor vehicle, or workplace. (2) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred
     
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  22. dmarbell

    dmarbell Behold...the "Mallet O' Understanding..."

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    Let me add that if I came home and found someone holding my TV, who had unlawfully and forcibly entered my home, and surrendered saying, "Don't shoot" and followed my instructions to comply, I probably would not feel compelled to shoot them. Also, if they dropped the TV and ran out the door, I would probably be inclined to let them leave.
     
  23. tsconver

    tsconver Sponsor Club Subscribed

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    The whole Castle Doctrine assumes someone is in the home, car or workplace, "lawful occupant". As I mentioned you cannot walk out of Walmart and see someone trying to break into your car and shoot them and claim castle doctrine. If you come home and see evidence someone has broken into your home you cannot go in and shoot them unless you know there is a family member or someone inside that needs assistance. If you go inside and find someone there like previously said that is different but to just go in and claim CD as your defense for shooting a robber will get you in deep trouble.

    I have talked to a couple of area attorneys on this and they agree, occupant in this law means you are in the home and occupying it at the time of the forceful entry happened. The part you highlighted means you can shoot them as they come up the stairs if they wake you up. The entry has already occurred but you are still protected by castle. Under the old law you had a duty to retreat once they had entered the house.
     
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  24. tsconver

    tsconver Sponsor Club Subscribed

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    You do not have a choice you cannot use deadly force to protect property, that is clear. If they throw the tv at you and charge you then you could consider the deadly force laws and whether or not to shoot them.

    Also it is against the law in NC to make a citizens arrest. Legally you cannot detain a robber at gun point or by any means. They could charge you with various crimes including kidnapping. Would it happen probably not but it is possible.
     
  25. dmarbell

    dmarbell Behold...the "Mallet O' Understanding..."

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    Agreed. But what if you came home and entered your house without knowing someone had unlawfully and forcibly entered? Are you then a "lawful occupant?" I would have to believe at that point you would be protected by the CD, unless the person surrendered immediately or tried to escape. If I come in through the front door, and there is a burglar ransacking my place who then confronts me without immediate retreat or surrender, what am I to assume.

    That situation is unclear, and is much different than coming home and realizing someone had broken in.
     
  26. toddje

    toddje ethical server guy

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    Please, please, please - you need to take the NC CCW class, and then probably a couple NRA classes or similar. The best advice you may have gotten so far is from @B00GER here. Now, some other folks may have it partly right or completely right - but taking the class may be your first and best evidence that you were a prudent gun owner and not a nutter firing off two blasts like the out-going VP suggests.
     
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  27. Climberman

    Climberman Well-Known Member

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    So Golmer is full of crap then?
     
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  28. tsconver

    tsconver Sponsor Club Subscribed

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    Who is Golmer?
     
  29. tsconver

    tsconver Sponsor Club Subscribed

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    I am a chp instructor and the info i give out comes from the instructors at NCDOJ that teach the chp instructors.
     
  30. trcubed

    trcubed well...bye Lifetime Member

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    None of your business, eh!
    This is the best bit of advice in this thread.
     

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