Red dot with cowitnessed fiber front?

Discussion in 'Handguns, Pistol Shooting' started by Gear Head, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. Gear Head

    Gear Head Registered Member

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    Anyone running this combo? Looking to swap to Dawson precision red fiber front and blacked out rear but am interested in mounting a dot down the road. My only concern is having 2 red dots in the sight picture, one from the dot and the other from the cowitnessed fiber front. Ive found some pics of people running this combo but I can't find any pictures of what that sight picture looks like.
     
  2. Wahoo95

    Wahoo95 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    I'd pass

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
  3. Gear Head

    Gear Head Registered Member

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    Another option would be to run the non-cowitnessing sights so I can still have nice fiber sights now and if I decide to throw a dot on there will be nothing but the dot in the window. My only concern with that is if the dot goes down mid-stage.. it would be a point shoot thing after that.
     
  4. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    A lot of guys on the FN Forum run their FNX-45s with red dots co-witnessed with the fixed sights. It requires the use of HIGHER/TALLER front and rear sights, and thestock sights for a gun that isn't set up (from the factory) for a red-dot type sight system, simply won't cut it. The sights you mention may be appropriate for the later addition of a optical system like a red dot. Talk with Dawson.

    These guys have theirs set up so that the fixed sights offer the same sight picture as the red-dot if the battery goes dead or the sight becomes inoperative.
     
  5. Gear Head

    Gear Head Registered Member

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    I understand that you have to have taller sights. I have a m&p CORE and already have suppressor sights. My question isn't how or if I can cowitness but rather would a cowitnessed red fiber front sight cause too much distraction when obtaining a sight picture with a red dot because you would essentially see 2 dots, the front post as well as the dot from the red dot.
     
  6. timman34

    timman34 Registered Member

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    I have a Glock 17 GEN 4 MOS that I purchased a few months ago. Installed a Vortex Razor red dot and Dawson red fiber front sight with blacked out/serrated rear (suppressor height). I've been running this in USPSA matches in the Carry Optics division and having great success and lots of fun. This is an awesome setup in my opinion, gives you the best of both worlds. I draw this and initially present as if I was going to use the iron sights, this makes it easier and quicker to find the red dot. Once the red dot appears...just follow the dot, put dot on target and go bang. I had some initial retraining of mind and eye to use this new system, but as an experienced shooter I found the learning curve short and well worth the effort. I just ignore the red fiber on the iron sight once the red dot appears and this is easier to do by turning the red dot brightness up an extra one or two notches. Now I find using the red dot allows for much faster shooting and is more accurate at speed and distance. I have aging eyesight issues and this setup has fixed most of the problems I was struggling with since I am no longer fighting with three focal planes and can simply focus on the target and superimpose the dot. This is the wave of the future so don't be afraid to jump on board and enjoy! I'm happy to help others make the leap so feel free to give me a shout with any questions.
     
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  7. Gear Head

    Gear Head Registered Member

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    Awesome, thanks a lot for the repsonse! Always good to hear first hand experience. I actually went ahead and ordered a vortex viper last night. I figured I'd rather spend that money first instead of spending $ on sights then dropping a red dot on anyways. I'll get it zero'd and work on picking up the dot at presentation and decide if I still want to do dawson sights. I may just leave the factory sights and then use dawson's on another gun I can shoot limited with.
     
  8. bigfutz

    bigfutz Registered Member

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    Just get a different color.
     
  9. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Seems to me that if the two sights are co-witnessed, the optical RMR sight should, in effect, block/obscure the sight on the front of the slide. when the sight is on and it really shouldn't matter.
     
  10. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Maybe we're talking about two different things?

    The folks I know who go this route have both sight systems aligned, with the red dot OBSCURING the physical sight on the front of the slide when the sight is turned on. If the two sights aren't aligned (where the front sight's dot hides behind the optical dot), they're not really co-witnessed, which means you'll have two different points of impact, depending on which sight system is being used.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  11. Gear Head

    Gear Head Registered Member

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    I could but I'm not a huge fan of green and definitely not a fan of yellow. I went ahead and ordered a red dot so I'll probably end up leaving the stock sights on there. The Dawson sights were going to be until I got a dot but screw it, it's only money right?
     
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  12. Socom Elite

    Socom Elite Member

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    if they are cowitnessed yes it would just look like one red dot. The other 99% of the time and especially during recoil it will look like 2. Also you dont cowitness when you shoot. You just shoot when the red dot is over what you want to hit.
     
  13. Gear Head

    Gear Head Registered Member

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    This was my concern. I ended up just going with a dot a leaving the factory sights in place.
     
  14. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    As I understand it... (the only ones I've shot didn't belong to me, and they were co-witnessed... and I didn't really pay attention to/noticed the fixed sights -- just looked at the red dot.) Maybe I've got this wrong, but...
    • Leaving the factory sights in place (IF they're high enough to be seen through the dot sight system), means you might will see 2 dots 100% the time (instead of 99%) -- until they're co-witnessed.
    • If the fixed sights are NOT compatible with the "dot" sight system you pick (i.e., the red dot sights tend to set much higher than fixed sights), the factory sights might NOT even be visible. If that happens, and the dot sights fail (battery problem, etc.) you'll be without sights!
    • If you can see the fixed sights (with the dot sights installed) but they aren't co-witnessed with the dot sights, the fixed sights will not shoot to the same point of impact as your dot system... If you turn off the dot system, you'll have to mentally adjust your point of aim.
    Some folks rely on the dot sights and remove the factory sights. Others get higher (compatible) factory sights and co-witness.
     
  15. Cochise

    Cochise Registered Member

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    Reflex optics are relatively parallax free meaning the single red dot can be in several places on the screen as you move eye or gun and withing reason have a constant point of impact. You don't have to have the dot in a certain spot of the screen. That would be an impossible situation to overcome and would require another sighting element like a circle just like iron sights have 2 elements, a front post and rear notch. When the dot is well above the front post centered in the screen it will impact the target the same as it would if it were lower and hiding the insert on the front sight (both aligned) . If you use the iron sights to aim, yes the red dot will also be aligned with the front post. Try this test at home. Fix the gun in a rest. Align the iron sights to a target. The red dot, if sighted in, will then align with the insert on the front post. Both are now showing the same POI. Now raise your eye slightly. The red dot moves up AND stays on target and the POI hasn't changed because the gun hasn't moved. The iron sights no longer appear aligned and will not until you lower your eye again. All co-witness means is you can see the iron sights and the dot in the same screen. The iron sights must be aligned to aim but the red dot is free to roam because it is relatively Parallax free and both shoot the same POI if both are sighed in. Timman34 gave you great advice, I do the same thing. Use the iron sights to get a quick acquisition for the red dot, then just use the dot ANYWHERE on the screen. Good luck.
     
  16. 9146gt

    9146gt Registered Member

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    Practice your draw with the dot and no sights will be need.

    Tom
     
  17. Gear Head

    Gear Head Registered Member

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    I think people are misunderstanding what I was asking. I know what co-witnessing is, I know how to use a red dot, I know that POI is where ever the dot is reguardless of if the irons are lined up or not. My concern was that if I put fiber sights on, specifically using the color red, if things would get too confusing because when obtaining a sight picture you would essentially see two red dots. One from the fiber front post and one from the optic.

    As I said above, none of this really matters now because I decided to put a red dot on with the factory sights instead of putting a fiber front on until I decided to buy a dot.
     

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