357Sig power, a myth? | Carolina Shooters Club

357Sig power, a myth?

Discussion in 'Handguns, Pistol Shooting' started by procobob, May 3, 2020.

  1. procobob

    procobob Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Hi folks,
    Quite some time ago, after reading ballistic tables, "expert" commentary, etc. I purchased a Glock 33 for front pocket carry. Practicing with this has always been an adventure, to say the least, but I dealt with it because it seemed to be the most logical for my use. With the recent, forced time I have on my hands, I have been checking out Youtube videos and have discovered that many experts from cadaver scientists to YouTubers doing their own ballistic gel tests say the new 9mm defensive rounds are just as potent. Now my question, how can a round traveling at approximately 15% greater speed and with almost 40% more muzzle energy, not be more potent? Thanks for any comments.
    Bob
     
  2. Confused

    Confused Member

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    I cannot scientifically answer your question,however in in one of my testings done years ago on a junk car 357 sig fared much better than 9mm on windshields and car door penetration.Not using fancy defensive rounds either.Standard 9mm 115gr/124gr ball vs standard 125gr sig.

    See if Paul Harrell has any youtube videos on the subject.
     
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  3. Sean Alexander

    Sean Alexander Registered Member

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    I would love to start seeing 357 sig carbines
     
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  4. NonamehaveI

    NonamehaveI That guy that did that thing Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    vs .40 not 9 but...
     
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  5. John Galt

    John Galt Member

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    Wake county and nchp carry it and I think both agency love it and damn few survive being shot. At one time both agency were batting 1000 on bad guys. We've shot and killed wild hogs with Fmj 357 sig..
     
  6. 1911gobang

    1911gobang Sponsor

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    10mm. Zero myth. Power. When it absolutely, positively has to be stopped ASAP. One or two shots center mass will stop dang near any breathing organism. 180 grain hydra shok or XTP’s are NASTY!! The round was developed to punch through engine blocks to disable vehicles and shoot through tempered glass and still have enough oomph to canoe a BG’s forehead.

    357 Sig is a substantial little bugger no doubt, but grain for grain, I’ll take 10mm.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. Headspace

    Headspace Registered Member

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    357 Sig is basically throwing a 9mm bullet with a .40 powder charge. Why not just throw a .40 bullet with a .40 powder charge? Seems you can find something "wrong" or something "better" about most any pistol caliber. Or, like the guy above me says, go 10mm. I like them, too.
     
  8. carolina sorillo

    carolina sorillo Registered Member

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    Yeah, 10mm. So you can throw .40 bullets with a .45 charge!! :D:D
    Or a .327, so you can throw .32 bullets with a .38 charge!! It goes on and on. The ONLY way to remedy this problem is to buy one of each and rotate them all!!:D:D

    Sorry I can't help with this topic but I'm a smart aleck and couldn't resist,
    CS
     
  9. hagar

    hagar Registered Member

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    I'm a big fan, bought one of the first 357 Sig P229's that came on the market in the early 90's. The 357 is a very accurate round, much more so than either 40 or 9mm. At 100 yards it really shines compared to the 9 and 40. It also penetrates better, we tested numerous cartridges against old washers and dryers that awesoles dumped in the AZ desert, and the 357 Sig almost matched the M1 carbine. The worst was the 45 and 32 auto. I did not have a 10mm at the time. The 10 is a good round, but to me it's for hunting or hiking use only.
     
  10. Manny

    Manny Registered Member

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    I built a glock 32 from a glock 23 just have the extra power of the sig.
    Of course ive gone rrally odd ball as far as going 45 gap..
    BUT....
    I load my own sig ammo
    My ammo with 115 grain hi tek coated and then the 115 grain jhp all come out bery near 1401 to 1461 fps.
    Now with the ballistic calculator it produces between 501 to 547 ft pounds.
    Yes ots a 9mm projectile but you are going to need arx 65 grain projectiles to get that speed and kinetic energy
    Its a hoot to shoot (pun intended)
    And ill take the sig any day
    Btw i do have a 10 mm glock 20.
    By choice ill take the sig mainly due to the weight difference between sig and glock 20.
    Just my pennies on this thread
     
  11. jw556

    jw556 Registered Member

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    I have carried the .357 sig for over ten years. First in the Sig 229, the. The Glock 32. The sig was easier to control and smoother to shoot. Pistol was heavier on the belt all day though. The Glock 32 is easier to carry but in the compact package has considerably more recoil. The Glock 31 helps the recoil but we have experienced premature wear on our Glock’s. We were advised by Glock that these pistol would have the premature wear due the caliber choice. I can shoot over 500 rds in my Glock 19 and my hands are fine, but after 100 rds with the Glock 32 I get Glock knuckle. Never got that with the heavier sig 229. The concussion is greater. When attending tactical classes with other agencies it draws attention for being much snappier and louder on the range. It’s not a fun caliber to shoot large volumes in a range session. In the 90s the .357 Sig was relevant. Now, with modern day bullet advancements the 9mm is the way to go. More capacity, softer recoil, why not? We have noticed a significant difference in scores of weak shooters when testing the 9s under the same standard qualifications. We are planning on transitioning to the 9mm jus like everybody else. We also noticed that the .357 sig in the compact barrel length has a tendency to lose its accuracy over 50 yds. At 100 yds we noticed bullet yaw with the duty load. The auto glass argument is dumb. I believe john McPhee with SOB tactical pointed it out first, when shooting at auto glass the front is laminated and harder to penetrate. The side glass or rear is where most officers would be shooting at to neutralize the threat, not the front. However shooting through the front most modern calibers will penetrate, if not the shooter will be shooting one after another and is the first doesn’t penetrate then the next and the next will. So one shot auto glass penetration is kind of silly. Only one shot penetrations would be with a sniper/DMR rifle. Currently there are only two large agencies still fielding the .357 Sig with one changing to 9mm under the next budget. With the cost of ammo, snappier recoil, the lack of availability and cost for individual officers to train on their own is too high. No suspect in the ER said, “damn, I am glad I got shot with a 9mm instead of the .357 sig”. In fact, an ER trauma surgeon could tell the difference in 9, .357 sig, 40, and 45. The .357 sig is out dated and the squeeze ain’t worth the juice. If you want power, look at 10mm. That’s worth the jump.
     
  12. Pumpkinslinger

    Pumpkinslinger Not Subscribed

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    Rule #1 - There are NO magic guns, cartridges or bullets. Given bullets with the same construction the one with more energy will be more effective. Energy is the ability to do work. The energy of the bullet is used to make noise, make heat, deform the bullet and damage the target.
     
  13. magicmanmb

    magicmanmb Registered Member

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    Sig 229 in .357sig will penetrate ballistic glass. Wouldn’t bet my life on 9mm. Worked an armored car shooting about 10 years ago driver got a .357sig round in the chest driver got the outermost laminate cracked 9mm. Bad guy got run over with the truck. It’s in the bullet, charge & your aim.
     
  14. MurphyLong

    MurphyLong sudo Staff Member Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    There are so many variables- angle of impact, composition of the projectile, velocity, and placement... There aren't many rounds that are ineffective against a plain-clothed person, except those fired from a Hi-Point.

    Either way, I opt for a ton of muzzle energy to keep it simple... Literally, 2,000ftlbs. It keeps the testimony simple.
     

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