I've spent a couple of weeks debating with myself about purchasing replacing my concealed carry handguns. I currently alternate between a S&W Shield and my XDs .45, and mostly carry the XDs. I've decided I want something a little larger and heavier in my hands. I have a Sig 226 but can't conceal it very well. I've been wanting a 1911 but don't know how practical one would be as a CCW (perhaps a compact one). I've read a lot about the CZ P01 and would buy one from Cajun Gun Works that has thier modifications done, if I do buy one. What are your thoughts on these options? Also, in the post asking how much ammo do you carry, why were there no more than one CZ mentioned as a CCW?
Swamp Fox
I'm always a huge fan of CZ pistols. They're a smaller and newer (relatively) to the big names, so they get less market share and some people have never heard of them! But they have a cult following for a reason.
If you've shot both, go with the one you like. I prefer the easier recoil manageability and higher round count of a 9mm. And a 9mm coming out of a CZ is a very comfortable thing.
If you've shot both, go with the one you like. I prefer the easier recoil manageability and higher round count of a 9mm. And a 9mm coming out of a CZ is a very comfortable thing.
like was said above, I'd go with whatever feels best / more natural to you.
they're both good options, hard to go wrong either way.
they're both good options, hard to go wrong either way.
I'll second the "go with what feels best" AFTER you've had a chance to shoot both. Both will probably feel great in your hand, but that's not the same as actually shooting either.
But there are other things to consider:
-The 1911 is a single-action gun that should be carried cocked and locked. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a mode you're probbly not used to if your prior weapon was a P-226. The P-01, like the SIG, is a decocker model, starting from DA and switching to SA; it can't be carried cocked and locked. Nothing wrong with that, either. The CZ starts from the half-cock notch, and will have a longer trigger pull on the first shot than a 1911. Getting a P-01 from CGW with tuning already done is a good idea, as CZs, straight out of the box, often need work done (or a lot of firing) to smooth out the trigger.
-Another other point is capacity: the P-01 is a 14+1 round gun, while most 1911s will hold far fewer rounds, even if they're 9mm models.
-Finally, check the carry weight of both guns, as a carry gun seem to put on weight as the day drags on.
But there are other things to consider:
-The 1911 is a single-action gun that should be carried cocked and locked. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a mode you're probbly not used to if your prior weapon was a P-226. The P-01, like the SIG, is a decocker model, starting from DA and switching to SA; it can't be carried cocked and locked. Nothing wrong with that, either. The CZ starts from the half-cock notch, and will have a longer trigger pull on the first shot than a 1911. Getting a P-01 from CGW with tuning already done is a good idea, as CZs, straight out of the box, often need work done (or a lot of firing) to smooth out the trigger.
-Another other point is capacity: the P-01 is a 14+1 round gun, while most 1911s will hold far fewer rounds, even if they're 9mm models.
-Finally, check the carry weight of both guns, as a carry gun seem to put on weight as the day drags on.
And, if you try a P-01 or 1911 and still aren't sure, I've got a Gray Guns-tuned SIG P228r (i.e., 9mm) I simply don't shoot; I might be talked into parting with it, if the idea of a smaller "226" interests you. I'm just not crazy about decocker guns; I bought this one, used, on a whim. (I have two other SIGs, but they're both Single Action only: A P-226 X Five and a 220 Super Match.)
This 228r has a marvelous trigger. It comes with three extra mags. Hogue and stock grips, a spare-parts kit, original box, manual, etc. Check out Gray Guns on the Web. The gun has GG's Reduced Reset Comprehensive Duty Package (http://grayguns.com/gunsmith-services/sig-sauer-pistols/) and a set of Heine Straight Eight night sights. (They're about 3 years old?) I bought the gun from the original owner, who had all the work done, and he spent about $500 upgrading the gun. (I was going to have Gray Guns do some work on one of my SIGs, until I found that just shipping it to Washington state was almost $100...)
This 228r has a marvelous trigger. It comes with three extra mags. Hogue and stock grips, a spare-parts kit, original box, manual, etc. Check out Gray Guns on the Web. The gun has GG's Reduced Reset Comprehensive Duty Package (http://grayguns.com/gunsmith-services/sig-sauer-pistols/) and a set of Heine Straight Eight night sights. (They're about 3 years old?) I bought the gun from the original owner, who had all the work done, and he spent about $500 upgrading the gun. (I was going to have Gray Guns do some work on one of my SIGs, until I found that just shipping it to Washington state was almost $100...)
Having owned and carried both, I find an all steel government sized 1911 is more comfortable to carry. But that's just me. I don't mind the weight. It's all in the thickness for me. I'm relatively slim, so a single stack will always be easier for me to conceal. I also just shoot better and enjoy shooting a 1911 more. The p-01 is pretty awesome though.
The correct answer is both if your budget allows.
If I had to pick, I'd take a 1911. The PCR is worth a look, too. It didn't seem to carry any easier without the rail, though.
The correct answer is both if your budget allows.
If I had to pick, I'd take a 1911. The PCR is worth a look, too. It didn't seem to carry any easier without the rail, though.
Avowed CZ Cultist and unashamed CZ Bigot reporting for duty!
The P01 is the gun that turned me on to CZs in the first place. It really is a top-notch piece.
It carries IWB very well, with the thin profile due to the slide riding on the inside of the rails. I also have the thin aluminum grips from CZ-Custom installed. I have a Kahr PM9 that I used to use for concealed carry (also a great gun!), but once I got the Galco holster for my CZ, it really nuzzled in the waist very well, and my Kahr eventually got relegated to the back shelf for daily carry. Yeah, they're completely different classes of weapons, but the CZ carries very small for its class.
I agree that there's nothing wrong with full-steel frames, but the lightweight aluminum frame does remove the need for a special extra-stiff carry-belt. I simply used my everyday belt opened one more notch with the CZ.
One of the reasons I even looked at the CZ was because of the decocker. My personal opinion is that a defense gun is no place for a manual safety, because when you really need it, the last thing you want to be doing is f-in with a safety. (I've also carried a 1911 for a daily piece, and the ergos for that really don't hinder the handling of a manual safety, for me anyways...your thumb just naturally goes to the safety when you grip it, so for comparison between these two guns you have in mind, this may not be a factor).
Another thing was shown to me when we had "free play time" after a gunfighter league, one of the guys I hang with (a Glock guy) was dying to shoot my P01, so of course I let him. He showed me, side-by-side, when limp-wristed, his G19 would FTE properly, right on cue after only a couple rounds (he held it 90-degrees in his hand, light-fingered and fired into the berm, to simulate the limp-wrist). He did the same thing with my P01, and the whole mag emptied, no FTFs, no FTEs. I've never been a Glock guy, simply because of the ergos, but I always held them in high regard. Just something to think about when considering a defensive pistol...stressed, injured, or awkward angle in that critical time of need.
The stock trigger is thin and curved, I've replaced it with the (I think) CZ-85 combat trigger, which is thicker and a more shallow curve. That's an upgrade I recommend, personally. I also recommend a very large Swear Jar if you try to do it yourself. =) You almost need three hands to get that job done, lol.
So there you go. I'm pretty much a Certified Dumb Ass, a CZ Bigot, who can't hit the broad side of a barn even if I was standing inside said barn, but my .02, for what it's worth. =)
Good luck in your choice!
(Oh, and go CZ!)
The P01 is the gun that turned me on to CZs in the first place. It really is a top-notch piece.
It carries IWB very well, with the thin profile due to the slide riding on the inside of the rails. I also have the thin aluminum grips from CZ-Custom installed. I have a Kahr PM9 that I used to use for concealed carry (also a great gun!), but once I got the Galco holster for my CZ, it really nuzzled in the waist very well, and my Kahr eventually got relegated to the back shelf for daily carry. Yeah, they're completely different classes of weapons, but the CZ carries very small for its class.
I agree that there's nothing wrong with full-steel frames, but the lightweight aluminum frame does remove the need for a special extra-stiff carry-belt. I simply used my everyday belt opened one more notch with the CZ.
One of the reasons I even looked at the CZ was because of the decocker. My personal opinion is that a defense gun is no place for a manual safety, because when you really need it, the last thing you want to be doing is f-in with a safety. (I've also carried a 1911 for a daily piece, and the ergos for that really don't hinder the handling of a manual safety, for me anyways...your thumb just naturally goes to the safety when you grip it, so for comparison between these two guns you have in mind, this may not be a factor).
Another thing was shown to me when we had "free play time" after a gunfighter league, one of the guys I hang with (a Glock guy) was dying to shoot my P01, so of course I let him. He showed me, side-by-side, when limp-wristed, his G19 would FTE properly, right on cue after only a couple rounds (he held it 90-degrees in his hand, light-fingered and fired into the berm, to simulate the limp-wrist). He did the same thing with my P01, and the whole mag emptied, no FTFs, no FTEs. I've never been a Glock guy, simply because of the ergos, but I always held them in high regard. Just something to think about when considering a defensive pistol...stressed, injured, or awkward angle in that critical time of need.
The stock trigger is thin and curved, I've replaced it with the (I think) CZ-85 combat trigger, which is thicker and a more shallow curve. That's an upgrade I recommend, personally. I also recommend a very large Swear Jar if you try to do it yourself. =) You almost need three hands to get that job done, lol.
So there you go. I'm pretty much a Certified Dumb Ass, a CZ Bigot, who can't hit the broad side of a barn even if I was standing inside said barn, but my .02, for what it's worth. =)
Good luck in your choice!
(Oh, and go CZ!)
I think that a commander sized or smaller 1911 could do just fine for CCW. I think this goes back to the endless 45 vs 9mm battle. Ultimately what fits you best, and what you can shoot best under stress is ultimately gonna be the right gun for you.
RE: replacing CZ triggers.
You don't really need three hands. You need a "slave" pin (a nail of the proper diameter, cut to a suitable length -- such as the width of the trigger or just a bit more). Insert it in the trigger, and then position everything (the spring the trigger), then push the slave pin out when you insert the proper pin, pushing things on through. It's easier than you'd think.
You don't really need three hands. You need a "slave" pin (a nail of the proper diameter, cut to a suitable length -- such as the width of the trigger or just a bit more). Insert it in the trigger, and then position everything (the spring the trigger), then push the slave pin out when you insert the proper pin, pushing things on through. It's easier than you'd think.
Well, I've decided....In an attempt to keep everyone happy (lol) I've decided on both the CZ P01 and a Ruger 1911 Commander. I have already placed my order in for the CZ at Cajun Gun Works...David is awesome to deal with. I went to Ideal Sportsman in Concord to check out the guns (they had a Ruger 1911 Commander on their website but had none in stock when I got there. Now it is a couple week wait or so on the CZ and who knows how long on the Ruger. Ideal Sportsman's list price on the Ruger beat everybody else's price that I went to. Now I've got a Shield 9mm to put on the for sale page to be followed soon with an XDs .45!
The ruger is nice. You can't go wrong with that one. The p-01 is awesome, too. I only got rid of mine to finish paying for:
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Get you some nice wood for that CZ!
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Oh, sp-01 floor plates on full sized 16 round mecgar mags make for a flush fit on the compact p01 frame as pictured.
Get you some nice wood for that CZ!
Oh, sp-01 floor plates on full sized 16 round mecgar mags make for a flush fit on the compact p01 frame as pictured.
Attachments
There was a deal on a p-01 in the for sale section. You can buy the parts from cgw and install it yourself. That's what I did with my sp-01. It will save you some $$$. My view its fir the cz as well.
I love 1911s. For IWB, I like either a bobtail commander (I have a Dan Wesson Classic) or a CCO (also have a Dan Wesson CCO). The CCO is not a bobtail, but it does have a slightly rounded MSH. I put thin grips on mine, which also helps concealability. The commander is steel, and I can shoot it all day. The CCO is alloy, and I don't like to shoot it all day But it's a DREAM to carry.
But it's a DREAM to carry.
I ended up with an sr1911 at one point and the guy gave me a Galco summer comfort holster. That's proven to be my favorite for 1911 IWB carry. I carry it at almost 3:00 and it's far more comfortable than it seems like it should be.
Really? I hated the one j hook holster I had. Even with a relatively light g19 I found it pulled my pant material down while my belt stayed in place. I like a holster that hooks to the belt. J hooks just never worked for me.
My P-01 rides in a Comp Tac C-TAC daily.
I've also carried it in a crossbreed hybrid style holster, Comp-Tac M-TAC and a Comp-Tac Gurkha.
The C-TAC is my favorite, by far.
Yep, love it. Easy to pull and re-holster. Easy to attach and detach. I wear it at a forward cant (FBI cant?), and the grip cradles just right in my waistline (I'm slender, AKA built like a b*tch). Once you sweat a little into the horsehide, it molds to the shape of the pistol like it was kydex.
I had my doubts at first, saw it and thought "what a cheap POS", but gave it a try, and never even tried anything else. I'm a rather active fellow, and it never ever gave a hint of slipping out (I used a thumb-break Don Hume prior to this one, which was also nice, but sat much higher above the belt and produced a much more pronounced print).
You and I may be built differently, which may be the difference in how this holster fits us.
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