Carolina Shooters Forum banner
  • Please post in our Community Feedback thread for help with the new forum software! If you are having trouble logging in, please Contact Us for assistance.

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Carolina Shooters Club
Joined
·
2,545 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
:Update:

12/23/12
I've been overwhelmed with info and help for numerous members and first I have to say Thank You all. Since I've been out of work for 2.5 weeks. I've took the time to talk/find a recruiter to help me get packet together. He has upfront told me how hard/competitive it is and low chance I have to getting accepted being off the street. The hell with that!!!! The worst that can happen is I don't get accepted. If I don't get accepted after three time ( if I don't get selected the first time then I can reapply the next month and then if I still don't get accepted I get a automatic review after 6 months) I'm not going to give up, may have just to do it the hard way. By enlisting putting in my time then sending a packet to a recruiter after X number of years.

I've always wanted to go in to military, but didn't on account of school, family and doing what they wanted me to do. Anyway enough of that, over the course of the last few months I've been really looking in to the Army what they have to offer. My Dad's good friend is at Bragg (just retired) and is a Warrant Officer for SF. I'm about to have my 2nd 2 year degree (GPA is 3.6 and 3.4), but can't go to OCS unless I have 4 year (another 2 years and I'll be 27/28). I will go in as a E-3 E-4 from what I read but it bounces around.

Since I would get a late start so to speak there will be guys 22-26 that out rank me. Obvious, something I honestly don't care but feel like I would behind the ball so to speak.

Really looking at the Warrant Officer program for 2 reason

1) Fly Blackhawks or Apache helicopters (bad thing is I HAD a lazy eye and I don't have 20/20 (it is correctable to 20/20 though)

2) Going in enlist (which is what I will have to do regardless) gets in to a specialty then apply for Warrant officer school.

I actually filled out info on the army's website but haven't heard anything from them in 2 weeks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
607 Posts
Finish your degree and go full officer if you're going to do it - waste of 2 years otherwise. Don't know about the Army, but in the Corps you have to have been in for 8 years before you're even eligible.
 

·
Carolina Shooters Club
Joined
·
2,545 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Finish your degree and go full officer if you're going to do it - waste of 2 years otherwise. Don't know about the Army, but in the Corps you have to have been in for 8 years before you're even eligible.
Here's a link http://www.goarmy.com/about/service-options/enlisted-soldiers-and-officers/warrant-officers.html

Wouldn't be a waste of 2 years as I would have another associate degree, but wouldn't be a bachelors. I'm sure UNC-C has ROTC program to get involved in.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,666 Posts
You best bet for asking questions is the various OCS or OTS forums for each branch...

For the Army http://www.armyocs.com/

Keep in mind that we are in the middle of a big time drawdown so you may not be able to get in as an officer unless you are a very in demand MOS... For example the USAF has not taken any non-academy, non-ROTC officers that are not Pilots, Combat Systems Operators, Weathermen, etc... Last I heard, they had not done ANY non-rated boards for officers in at least 2 years.
 

·
Green Iron Addict
Joined
·
1,441 Posts
I can connect you with a variety of warrants-mainly Support/maintainer MOSs, but the only pilots I can connect you to are officers. OCS had a HUGE cut, I think almost 50%, in the requirement of new LTs coming from them. In the course I'm in now, the majority are ROTC, OCS or Direct Commission (College Op or similar). only a handful of West Pointers.

Keep in mind, if you want to fly, you need to get checked now. As far as I know, standards are 20/20, un-corrected, without surgery (Lasik/PRK).

I cannot speak on SF Warrants. As far as I know they are their own breed but come from within SF. being an SF Warrant is a good way to stay in the SF Teams, get more pay, but not have to put up with all the stuff that Officers have to do. Feel free to contact me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
I know a guy who's a warrant officer Blackhawk pilot. Ok, actually I am the guy. I'll shoot you a PM with phone number and we can talk later tonight or something. I'm honestly on my way out to go fly right now.

One of my crew chiefs is on this board as well. He'll probably be able to tell you the enlisted side that many first take on their way to becoming a pilot.

Helicopter Vehicle Aircraft Military helicopter Cockpit
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,283 Posts
You can go 18X, do your team time, pay your dues, prove you have a good head on your shoulders, an appropriate level of maturity and go SF Warrant after a few years. That is unless you are having to much fun as an SF NCO. And yes, in some instances, they put up with the same BS as officers because an SF Warrant can be a detachment commander.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,877 Posts
I had my toes on the line to go Army flying WO about 5 years ago. Didn't follow through for a list of reasons that I won't get into, but go up to the flight physical and researched a ton of the details.

The Army's (and really, any branch) website provides some pretty detailed info. There are numerous other websites and blogs that have other folks' accounts of their experience going from signing up through training and into deployment. I felt pretty secure in knowing what I was getting into through that research.

One thing that annoyed the hell out of me was catching the recruiter in a flat out lie. I know, everyone has a reason/excuse for recruiters and I fully understand their game revolves around numbers. I was signing up on my own will with the sole motivation to fly rotors...not for money or school (I was 5 or 6 years into an engineering degree and tired of school). The recruiter was still set on luring me in with promises of signing bonuses and other cash incentives. Upon a return visit to the office to sign some papers, my recruiter wasn't there and another pulled me aside who'd overheard the conversations about money. He felt compelled to tell me that incoming WO's and Officers don't get signing bonuses as they're supposed to be signing on for the honor and duty and shouldn't be baited/enticed. It wasn't a deal breaker for me, but I thought it was pretty crappy for someone to lie about.

Anyway...I have no regrets on not making the jump, but I do wonder about what life would be like had I taken that turn. I'd say go at it full speed ahead if you've got nothing holding you back. I too would have been the old guy in the ranks and I really didn't care much. I had experienced that in high school JROTC (freshman outranking me as a sophomore). It's a formality and the better man will prevail. And in the long run...so friggin what?! You're gonna fly choppers and do some awesome stuff.

On a side note, I was really attracted to flying medevacs when I eventually "got out." Those guys seem to have awesome jobs...civilian job (no deployment and always home), always exciting and some sort of mission, never the same LZ, you don't have to actually look/touch the blood and guts but you're still helping save someone's life.

I digress...

Do it man...quit thinking about it!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,039 Posts
What is the age cut off to sign up for any military branch?
C&P for enlistment, not commission.
Army - 35 (must ship to basic training prior to 35th birthday. The Army experimented with raising the age limit to age 42 for a brief period of time, but effective April 1st, 2011, the Army has reverted to the lower age limit.
Air Force - 27
Navy - 34
Marines - 28
Coast Guard - Age 27. Note: up to age 32 for those selected to attend A-school directly upon enlistment (this is mostly for prior service).

Reserve Non-Prior Service

Army Reserves - 35 (must ship to basic training prior to 35th birthday)
Army National Guard - 35 (changed from 42 in 2009)
Air Force Reserve - 34
Air National Guard - 40 (Changed from 34 in Aug 2009)
Naval Reserves - 39
Marine Corps Reserve - 29
Coast Guard Reserves - Age 39
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,282 Posts
I don't have a lot of experience with Warrants since there are none in my MOS (11 series).

However, I do recall that when I shipped to reception battalion upon first enlisting many moons ago, there was a platoon of Warrant Officer Flight School recruits; guys that had enlisted and gotten a shot at Warrant training once they had completed basic training. Of course, they have to complete BCT first so they have an enlistment to fall back on if they do not succeed in Warrant training.

Which, aside from tapping out of flight school, isn't a bad thing. I'm enlisted and I LOVE it. I have been asked by every officer who's command I've fallen under why I didn't either go officer from the beginning or go through OCS. I have 2 college degrees (about to start a 3rd) and am not your average infantryman, but seriously, the enlisted side of the house gets all the fun. If I was in Special Forces, I would want to be enlisted. Officers move around and go here and there so quickly...you'll get MUCH more operational time as an enlisted man.

But if Warrant/Flight is your thing but SpecOps appeals to you, you can always strive to make it in 160th SOAR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
He felt compelled to tell me that incoming WO's and Officers don't get signing bonuses as they're supposed to be signing on for the honor and duty and shouldn't be baited/enticed.
Actually, many warrants and RLOs have received bonuses. They don't so much right now because we are not hurting for people, but historically they often have.

there was a platoon of Warrant Officer Flight School recruits; guys that had enlisted and gotten a shot at Warrant training once they had completed basic training. Of course, they have to complete BCT first so they have an enlistment to fall back on if they do not succeed in Warrant training.
Not really. True, non prior service "street to seat" warrants do have to go through basic. However, it is not so that they will have an enlistment to fall back on. If one does not make it through IERW for any reason, they can simply go back to being a civilian. If you choose to stay in the military, they will work with you to firstly find an appropriate walking warrant slot and if not, then perhaps look at finding you an enlisted position.

You simply cannot force an officer to become enlisted. As the title implies, enlisted personnel must "enlist." Officers, including warrants, are commissioned, appointed by warrant, etc. They may resign at any time (much as you would from a civilian job) unless they have obligated themselves to additional service via schooling, etc., but they would not in any case be forced to revert to enlisted.

What is the age cut off to sign up for any military branch?
If we are strictly talking WO aviator, it has changed multiple times based upon the needs of the aviation branch. However, I do not know of a time (at least in recent history) that it has ever been above 32 years of age at the time one attends WOCS.

...By the way, these answers are as they relate to active duty. The National Guard has different standards - just in case anybody was wondering.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,282 Posts
Not really. True, non prior service "street to seat" warrants do have to go through basic. However, it is not so that they will have an enlistment to fall back on. If one does not make it through IERW for any reason, they can simply go back to being a civilian. If you choose to stay in the military, they will work with you to firstly find an appropriate walking warrant slot and if not, then perhaps look at finding you an enlisted position.
I don't understand how they could go back to being a civilian if they washed out of warrant training: they have an enlistment contract outstanding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
I don't understand how they could go back to being a civilian if they washed out of warrant training: they have an enlistment contract outstanding.
No, they don't. Warrants are not enlisted. Even on the day they are at MEPS the enlistment is only a formality (they are actually a warrant officer candidate at the commensurate pay grade of E-5).

Here's where people get confused. When a person goes from "street to seat" they are indeed enlisting with the guarantee of going to Warrant Officer Candidate School (WOCS). During basic training they get paid as an E-5 (Sgt/Warrant Officer Candidate). They wear E-5 rank at basic and simply switch to WOCS rank at WOCS. Upon completion of basic training they report directly to WOCS. For a non prior service candidate, WOCS is six weeks. At the end of six weeks, they are discharged and receive a warrant on the very same day. That means that the newly appointed warrant actually receives a DD-214 showing an honorable discharge just a few minutes before receiving the appointment to warrant officer (they are technically a civilian for those few minutes).

Now fast forward just a couple of days to the time that they sign in to Initial Entry Rotary Wing training (IERW). They are a warrant officer and therefore not enlisted. If they fail out or simply quit IERW, they may go back to being a civilian. Happens all the time. One would technically be correct in saying that if you were to fail out or quit WOCS (while being paid as an E-5) they could make you revert to an enlisted MOS. In practice, this does not happen. The candidate can, and most often does, simply receive a discharge and go back to civilian life. Why? Because rather than keep paying and training someone that doesn't want to be there but who will struggle until gradution day just to get their discharge and warrant (and thereby simply be able to quit then), they let them do so during WOCS if they so wish.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,282 Posts
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. I parted ways with the few Warrant candidate recruits after reception and never had any real experience around Warrants after that (not counting the BN S-1 adjutants, but never really had contact with them either). Even the SF guys I've worked with were either enlisted or commissioned officers.

I see a slight similarity with the enlistment/commission portion: I debated going through ROTC to get my Master's and to get my commission, and I was told basically the day before I commissioned, I'd get discharged from my enlistment and be commissioned the following day for the continuum of service.

Thanks for the info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
Thanks Josh for talking with me!
No problem. Happy to do so anytime. If the process gets overwhelming, which it can, or you just need a little direction give me a call. I've got some good resources that can come in handy and I'm happy to utilize them.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks
No problem. Warrants have always been different. I think that's by design. We never want anybody to know what we are truly up to.
 

·
Terminator terminator
Joined
·
3,922 Posts
I'm that Crew Chief that Josh from Osage was speaking of. If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top