Not a side by side, but I looked at a hunting buddies Stoeger Condor over/under and it was nicely finished and he killed alot of birds with it. I believe they make a combo also with 12 and 20 gauge for around $600 at BPS.

 

Just went and handled a Stoeger at the shop around the block. It seemed decently fit. Wood was definitely sub par, far from a pretty gun. Dang it was heavy. About what I expected except the guy wanted $500 for a new one.

 

Check the norinco models out also.

 

Just went and handled a Stoeger at the shop around the block. It seemed decently fit. Wood was definitely sub par, far from a pretty gun. Dang it was heavy. About what I expected except the guy wanted $500 for a new one.

it's supposed to be Grade A walnut. Try a Gander Mountain, they sell them for MSRP which is $450

 

I appreciate your affinity for a 20 gauge SxS. I've got O/U's & auto-loaders, but I always hunt quail with a 20 gauge SxS. There's just something "classic" about them.

Your problem is that cheap and SxS just don't go together. An older gun like Lefever or Ithaca would be the ideal choice, but it would be difficult to find one in good condition for the money you're talking. Also the older guns frequently have tighter chokes than what's ideal for clays, doves, and quail. Also they tend to have shorter stocks and a longer drop ant heel than current production shotguns. I'd have to hold an older shotgun before buying. Another advantage of an older SxS is that it will hold value. The aftermarket for the likes of a Baikal or Stoger is horrible.

I agree with your assessment of the Steven 311. Those things have all the grace of a 2X4. Be aware the the Savage Fox B is very similar to the 311. I've never handled a Yildiz, but I've read a positive review.

Here's a CZ Bobwhite on Shotgun World that's worthy of consideration. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=392240. It's advertised at $600 and is almost worth that. If you would consider a 12 gauge, look at this L C Smith on ArmsList. I'd be a buyer here if the stock crack wasn't bad. http://www.armslist.com/posts/24834...leigh-north-carolina-shotguns-for-sale-trade--lc-smith-double--26--f-m---550-00 Cracked stocks on LC Smiths are common. With this LC Smith, I'd have a gunsmith open the chokes.

Good luck and enjoy the hunt.

 

Thanks for the responses! Didn't know Norinco made SxS I'll have to look around a little.

Lysander, I know the cheap and SxS just don't belong in the same thought. I just can't justify dropping $1k+ on one that really won't see a lot of action. I scanned through GB and there's a few Ithaca SKB and NIB with the star receiver in the $6-700 range. Then a couple Lefever Nitro Special that are both $3-400. But yeah the rest of any of the lefever guns are out of my range. Just like you said it's tough to tell the real condition and feel without laying hands on them.

I'm really intrigued by the Yildiz. I handled the O/U this weekend and was impressed. I own a Turkish 1911 (Tisas), and definitely think the quality far exceeds the price point. Kind of gives me a little better piece I mind in the Turkish gun over a Russian or Brazilian one. The Weight of the Yildiz was much more inline with what this type 20 GA should be around 5.5-6 pounds or so if I recall correctly. The Baikal an Stoeger are both 7+ Pounds.

I really think I want a 20. I know if I open up to a 12 there's a ton more options. I haven't found many good places around here yet for these older doubles. I may just have to take a ride up to Columbia to some bigger gun shops to see what I can find. Finding one in really great shape is definitely a treasure hunt!

 

Thanks for the responses! Didn't know Norinco made SxS I'll have to look around a little.

Norinco put them out under the name Interstate arms. The 20 gauge double is my wifes home defense gun. Simple and doesn't kick hard. They have the model with external hammers and without. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_288/products_id/17052/Interstate+Arms+99W20+20+20+CB+COWBOY+DBL+WAL

 

Norinco put them out under the name Interstate arms. The 20 gauge double is my wifes home defense gun. Simple and doesn't kick hard. They have the model with external hammers and without. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_288/products_id/17052/Interstate+Arms+99W20+20+20+CB+COWBOY+DBL+WAL

Thanks for the link. Looks like all they make are 20" coach guns. I'm looking for an upland bird gun with 26" or 28" barrels.

 

Lysander, so I you mentioned the model B similarity to the 311. For instance lets say I pick one up and found out I like it due to some slight differences. What kind of range should a model B be worth?

I posted a WTB ad on armslist and have had one taker. He had a Stevens Fox Model BSE series H in 20 Ga. with 26" barrels. From some quick searching this morning I'm guessing it's one of the most recent/last models made, like 80's vintage maybe? He says it's 100% so I'm guessing it's just been sitting in a gun cabinet for a couple decades. His first offer price is $650. Seem about right or a little high?

 

First, a Fox Model B is a Savage 311 with nicer wood and perhaps a higher quality finish. Stevens was a trademark owned Savage. $650 sounds like a good deal. Current Blue Book list the 20 gauge B-SE in 95% condition at $800, 98% at $900. I doubt that the gun is in 100% condition as few are. Keep in mind that the "book" isn't always right. A model B-SE will have a single trigger, selective ejectors, vent rib, pretty walnut, and a checkered grip.

Here's a copy/paste from another site that tells you more about a Model B than you want to know.

A little more info on the Fox Model B's by Savage....


Fox Model B – The Fox Model B was added to the 1940 Fox catalogue put out by Savage. The retail price was $25. The Model B was offered in 12-, 16-, and 20-gauges and .410-bore, and had a color case-hardened frame. By January 22, 1945, the retail price of the Model B was up to $34.50. After WW-II the Springfield 311 (1947) and then the Stevens 311 (1948 and on) were built on a version of the Model B action. The pre-WW-II Springfield No. 311, as well as the Riverside and Springfield No. 315, the Stevens No. 330, and numerous “trade brand” guns were all built on Steven’s G.S. Lewis’ Apr 20, 1915, patented action.

Through the 1954 catalogue the Model B remained a double trigger, plain extractor, slim forearm utility gun. In the 1955 catalogue Savage added a Model BST which got a non-selective single trigger and a beavertail forearm. The offerings were the same for 1956 thru 1958.

By the 1960 catalogue the B and the BST got ventilated ribs. There were no changes in the 1961 catalogue.

For 1962 a B De Luxe in 12-gauge was added with a satin chrome receiver, white-line grip cap and butt plate, checkered side panels, beavertail, ventilated rib, and gold plated non-selective single trigger. They also gold plated the trigger on the BST. There were no changes for 1963.

For 1964 the De Luxe became the BDE, and included automatic ejectors, and also was available in 20-gauge chambered for 3-inch shells. The B and BST remained unchanged.

For 1965 the B and BST 20-gauges got 3-inch chambers.

For 1966 the satin chrome BDE was gone. There was a BSE with ejectors, non-selective single trigger, satin black finish, white-line butt plate and grip cap, beavertail and ventilated rib. The Model B had double triggers, was case hardened, had a ventilated rib, and now a beavertail. Both guns now featured impressed stamped checkering. For 1967, 8 and 9 the offerings were the same. The gun control act of 1968 required Savage to start putting serial numbers on these guns.

I don’t have a 1970 catalogue, but by 1971 there was a gun called the Savage 550 which was just like the BSE but had a case hardened receiver, and was offered in 12- and 20-gauges. The text said it had precisely engineered barrels resulting in perfect balance. In the picture it appears to be a mono-bloc design?!? Also grip caps are gone from the B and BSE. Offerings for 1972 were the same – the 550 listed at $174.95, the B-SE listed at $164.95, and the B listed at $139.95.

By 1973, the BSE and 16-gauges are gone, but there is a 24-inch barrel B in 12-gauge and 20-gauge, both with 3-inch chambers.

For 1974 the Savage 550 is gone and the B-SE is back. The B-SE 12-gauge has 2 ¾ inch chambers and the 12-gauge B and 24” Fox B have 3-inch chambers. All the 20-gauge and .410-bore are 3-inch chambered. No changes for 1975, 6, 7, or 8. For 1979 the grip caps are back and the double triggered B is offered with ejectors as the BE.

For 1980, cut checkering is back, but the 24-inch barrel offerings are gone – B, BE and B-SE. In 1981 the BE was gone, but the FA-1 and the FP-1 Fox autoloader and pump appeared. For 1982 the Fox offerings were B, B-SE, FA-1 and FP-1.

For 1983 the only Fox offering was the B-SE. The B-SE remained through the 1987 catalogue when its list price was $525. By the 1988 catalogue the Fox name was gone.

 

Thanks for all the info on it! I really need to get out and get a copy of one of the firearm blue books to help me out.

 

Check out the CZ SXS really a great surprise and a good value.

 

Update on shotgun shopping.

The Baikal is out. Much rougher action than I remembered from my first trip

Stoeger is out. Heavy ass log and I think the Yildiz is a nicer gun for the same money.

Yildiz is still in. The O/U Yildiz is also now in. O/U just seemed easier to pick up the sight picture. Could just be my total inexperience with SxS guns.

CZ Bobwhite is in for both 20 and 16. Shouldered a 16 over the weekend that was great, just a little heavier than ideal.
(Apparently I think highly of Turkish guns!)

AyA Matador is in if I can find a 20 or 16. Absolutely loved the 12 I handled over the weekend. Nearly bought the 12 anyways. It was $600 and in very nice shape.

Lefever nitro special is out.

Ithica various models are in still. Just a little tough to find one with a price matching condition. Looked at a bunch of beat up 16s over the weekend as well.

Fox Model B is up in the air. Still haven't been able to put my hands on one.

 

Update again:

I just haven't found a good old lefever or ithica that wasn't badly beat up and I'm hesitant to buy one online without being able to handle it since there's so much that could've been modified or back yard gunsmithed on such an old gun.

I have purchased a new CZ Bobwhite 20 gauge from Jon's Sport Shop in Wisconsin. They special order them with a chrome colored receiver instead of the standard case hardened look. The best part, compared to any other CZ prices I've found, it was a steal for $499.95. Now the waiting game continues for shipping...

Pics to come when I get it in hand. It's sharp with the chrome colored reciever.

 

One more update. My new shotgun is in and I picked it up from my FFL today. It's a 20 GA CZ Bobwhite 202B. It came from Jon's Sport Shop in Oshkosh, WI and they special order them with the chrome colored receiver.