I was looking forward to owning one of these ONE day....when the price became reasonable
CasterTroy
I was looking forward to owning one of these ONE day....when the price became reasonable
They're doing you a favor.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-654666.html
Kel Tec is...not the best option out there to say the least without starting a brand battle.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-654666.html
Kel Tec is...not the best option out there to say the least without starting a brand battle.
Harsh! But I was almost half afraid it'd be like that.
I've owned Kel-tec's since they first came out with the P-11. The initial draw was their ability to be a "back-up" while still using the primary's magazine. That was awesome. And yes...there were issues.....but I was willing to overlook them. When the .32 came out I had to have that one as well for summer shorts. Yeah yeah.. I know...but it's enough to at least make NOISE and allow you to GET to the car/house/wherever and GET your primary.
And yeah I was willing to accept the "quality issues" because I owned a dremel and I can buff/polish pretty well (years of polishing lips on motorcycle wheels, and porting/polishing hot rods make you an unwilling expert) so the "buff and fluff" wasn't that much for me.
I've had 2 p-11, and a P-32 and I've long since traded those and settled with a PF-9. I like it. Buff and fluff, and yeah she ONLY eats Speer lawman, but once I got the ammo sorted I've gone thru about 500 rounds without a single malfunction. SO I'm happy with it.
I EXPECTED there to be kinks in the KSG....but what I was REALLY hoping for was the KSG to pave the way for a semi-auto KSG. THAT....I'd really be interested in.
Looks like that's down the crapper now
Sorry, but this company is a joke.
They couldn't get QC and production worked out in the BEST of times....
Btw- I own/have owned a number if their guns- I wish the above we're not true...
They couldn't get QC and production worked out in the BEST of times....
Btw- I own/have owned a number if their guns- I wish the above we're not true...
What would you expect them to do? The KSG is brand new to market, they have not even begun to recoop their development costs yet. I think it's perfectly legit. The Sub2000 is on the list too but they aren't raising the price on it. I've read reviews of the KSG on Glock Talk from multiple people and they are positive. Don't base your opinion on one interweb review.
I understand that we all have different experiences with weapons from different manufacturers, but overall I think most of the Kel Tec bashing is undeserved. There are 3 reasons why you might have problems with a new Kel-Tec weapon:
1. They are a true innovator. They release new, original, out of the box designs you will see no where else. Don't buy a KT in it's first year of manufacture unless you wish to assume the role of an early adopter who should expect later refinements. Kel Tec gets their bad rep mostly from people who by new designs in the first year. I cut them a huge amount of slack in this area. I'd much rather support a real innovator and an American manufacturer as well than a company that copies their designs and even themselves don't get it right and have to have a recall (ahem Ruger).
2. Many of Kel Tec's designs are on the bleeding edge of weight and size vs reliability. Those things are opposed to each other. The lighter and smaller something is the more difficult it is to make it reliable. Why do you think other companies copy their designs? Kel tec chooses to do things that are hard, not stamp out another 1911 or Glock.
3. They keep their prices reasonable. Any company that sells at Kel Tec's price point will save money in the QC area. That's just how it's done. A lot of their bad rep comes from their high volume very inexpensive pistols. News flash: if you're going to crap yourself if you get a bad one that slips through then don't buy a gun at that price point to begin with. Go buy a Kimber, etc. and pay for the higher level of QC, otherwise accept that you were unlucky and send it back and let them make it 100% for you which they will.
I understand that we all have different experiences with weapons from different manufacturers, but overall I think most of the Kel Tec bashing is undeserved. There are 3 reasons why you might have problems with a new Kel-Tec weapon:
1. They are a true innovator. They release new, original, out of the box designs you will see no where else. Don't buy a KT in it's first year of manufacture unless you wish to assume the role of an early adopter who should expect later refinements. Kel Tec gets their bad rep mostly from people who by new designs in the first year. I cut them a huge amount of slack in this area. I'd much rather support a real innovator and an American manufacturer as well than a company that copies their designs and even themselves don't get it right and have to have a recall (ahem Ruger).
2. Many of Kel Tec's designs are on the bleeding edge of weight and size vs reliability. Those things are opposed to each other. The lighter and smaller something is the more difficult it is to make it reliable. Why do you think other companies copy their designs? Kel tec chooses to do things that are hard, not stamp out another 1911 or Glock.
3. They keep their prices reasonable. Any company that sells at Kel Tec's price point will save money in the QC area. That's just how it's done. A lot of their bad rep comes from their high volume very inexpensive pistols. News flash: if you're going to crap yourself if you get a bad one that slips through then don't buy a gun at that price point to begin with. Go buy a Kimber, etc. and pay for the higher level of QC, otherwise accept that you were unlucky and send it back and let them make it 100% for you which they will.
Unless you want a double magazine tube shotgun then it's the only option.
Unless you want a bullpup .308 then it's the only option.
Unless you want a folding 9mm carbine then it's the only option.
Unless you want a 3lb folding 5.56 carbine then it's the only option.
Unless you want a pistol that holds 30 rounds in the grip then it's the only option.
Should I go on?
Guys I own a KSG, one of the best shotguns ive ever had. Its got well over 300 rounds through it without a single issue. I agree Keltecs quality is usually hit and miss, but they did a good job with the KSG.
It doesn't matter. The KSG has never been sold for regular price. It's always been 2x that and a $300 bump just means Keltec is getting a larger cut to offset possible risk. The real problem is how they never ramped up production to even begin to meet demand.
Since the KSG prices are up over $2200 on GunBroker, you can get a Turkish made UTS-15 (double magazine tube 12 gauge) for a grand less; my father in law just got one, and it doesn't suck.Unless you want a double magazine tube shotgun then it's the only option.
Unless you want a bullpup .308 then it's the only option.
Unless you want a folding 9mm carbine then it's the only option.
Unless you want a 3lb folding 5.56 carbine then it's the only option.
Unless you want a pistol that holds 30 rounds in the grip then it's the only option.
Should I go on?
And all the "If you want..." criteria, the unique market offerings from Kel Tec are not worth the potential hassles, even if a few of them work out. I'm not going to trust my life to something like that, even if a higher quality offering doesn't come with a folding stock.
Find a place like this:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/com...nt/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/utas-uts-15-tactical-shotgun-detail.html?Itemid=0
That does online sales, send it to an FFL near you. Enjoy.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/com...nt/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/utas-uts-15-tactical-shotgun-detail.html?Itemid=0
That does online sales, send it to an FFL near you. Enjoy.
I'd shop around but that's a pretty average price....that's right about what my father in law paid before FFL/Taxes.
I just handled it for a couple minutes.
Fully loaded, it's obviously got some weight to it. I thought it was neat that you could select left, right, or both tubes to feed from. With the "middle" selection, the shotgun will feed from both tubes, alternating left and right. The selector was a little stiff but I imagine that would break in a little as it's used.
A problem I noticed and read online with it is that you can pull the trigger and the hammer will fall when it's out of battery...most shotguns won't drop the hammer unless it's all the way closed. UTAS says that's OK because the hammer and bolt aren't lined to hit the firing pin until it's in battery...but I wouldn't want to test it if it was like 95% in battery and it actually connected.
I'd like to fire it. I just feel like an 8 shell Rem 870 or Mossy 500 would be easier to fully reload or top off; pump some shells into it underneath, and you can do that from the ready. I would have to work long and hard to be able to reload the UTS in a hurry. If you have the money to spend on a UTS and you want the 15 round capability and something no one else has...go for it.
The KSG is a wicked little shotgun. It's hard not to be impressed after shooting it, regardless if you if prefer Kel-Tec products or not.
Whatever. The vast majority of KT owners would disagree. Actually Hi-Points are extremely reliable. I'm glad a company (and an American one at that) is making reliable firearms even the lowest on the financial ladder can afford, self defense should be income neutral. I wouldn't personally own one (OK maybe the carbine) but I'm not going to be a snob about it.
It's hard to to be impressed with anything at current market value.
My LGS has sold them at MSRP, the few times that they have recently had them in stock, with the exception of raffling one off.
They are definitely worth the MSRP they were intended to be sold for, even with the current dealer price increase.
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