PHA TWO GUN TACTICAL MATCH - AUGUST 20, 2016 | Carolina Shooters Club

PHA TWO GUN TACTICAL MATCH - AUGUST 20, 2016

Discussion in 'Shooting Sports & Competitions' started by Brittanyman, Aug 1, 2016.

  1. Brittanyman

    Brittanyman Registered Member

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    The PHA Tactical Match is held on the 3rd Saturday of the month at 10:00 AM, weather permitting. Match fees are $20 to shoot the five stages, $15 for shooting the five stages a second time with a different gun. PHA members and active duty military and law enforcement receive a $5 discount.

    The match consists of 5 stages with different scenarios each month. All matches involve movement and shooting around barricades and through windows and doors at USPSA style targets. You begin shooting at the sound of a buzzer. Total round count will be between100 to 150 for the match (including pistol rounds). Bring at least 150 rifle and 50 pistol to be on the safe side.

    You can use center fireand rim fire. For center fire, rifles used are AR-15, Mini-14, AK-47’s and similar. For rimfire, the new ARs in .22 can be shot, along with other .22 semi-automatic carbines. We have 6 divisions - Centerfire Optics, Centerfire Iron Sights, 22 Rimfire, Heavy Metal (.30 or larger), Youth and Ladies.


    Pistols can be used in any pistol caliber. Shooters will need 2 rifle magazines (25 rds. or more minimum) and at least 3 - 8 round pistol magazines. Before each stage the range officers will explain safety rules and provide a walk through.

    Allow yourself enough time to enjoy a great time. Registration time starts at 9:00AM.
    Stages set up starts at 8:00.


    During the Tactical Match we run a cold range. That is all firearms must be unloaded with chambers empty and magazines out. Chamber flags must be showing in all rifles. If you don't have a chamber flag, they are sold at the match.

    NO RUSSIAN STEEL CORE OR GREEN TIP PENETRATOR RIFLE ROUNDS ON STEEL TARGETS!

    USPSA Targets are used during the match and the following scoring system is used:

    A zone = no time penalty
    B zone = no time penalty
    C zone = +1 second
    D zone = +2 seconds
    Miss = +5 seconds
    No shoots = +25 seconds


    Black areas on targets represent hard cover and count as a miss.
    Procedural violation = + 10 seconds
    Safety violation = Disqualification from match
    Shoot the stage clean and 10 seconds is subtracted from you score.
    Your best two hits on target are scored.
    Your score for a stage is your time running the stage plus your score from
    shots on targets.


    Any question please visit this web site http://phashoots.net/matchinfo/#tactical


    Address for directions:
    Piedmont Handgunners Association
    10346 S NC Highway 150 South
    Linwood, NC 27299
     
  2. Brittanyman

    Brittanyman Registered Member

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    The stages for the match are complete. The round count is as follows.

    Stage 1 - Rifle - 27

    Stage 2 - Rifle - 24

    Stage 3 - Rifle - 18 Pistol - 12

    Stage 4 - Rifle - 16 Pistol - 12

    Stage 5 - Pistol - 12 Rifle - 18

    Total Rifle - 103 Pistol - 36

    Hope the weather cooperates.
     
  3. burn 'em

    burn 'em Registered Member

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    Thanks for the info! I'd like to try this match.

    One quick question though, maybe you can help.

    Does this mean ammo will be checked with the magnet test?

    If I were to participate it would be running an AK with common commercial 7.62x39mm(bi-metal jacket over lead bullet in steel case) that will not pass a magnet test yet is in no way armour piercing against AR500 steel. This causes confusion to many people so before I set aside that Saturday to participate I want to make sure my ammo is allowed.
     
  4. Travis B

    Travis B Member

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  5. glock 56

    glock 56 Registered Member

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    Burn'em No mag. testing done . We just want to be respective of the range steel with no ARMOR piercing ammo. You should be good.
     
  6. MC69

    MC69 Registered Member

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    If a magnet sticks to the bullet of your ammo, you can not shoot it on the range's steel. Bimetal ammo is not suitable for steel targets, PHA is just going by the honor system for the participants.
     
  7. Gmarshall1990

    Gmarshall1990 Registered Member

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    Ill be there this time. Should have 1 or 2 more coming with me.
     
  8. burn 'em

    burn 'em Registered Member

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    This is saddening. It is my word that my ammo does not hurt steel targets, so shouldn't this be good enough for the honor system if damage to the target is the concern?

    The magnet test just doesn't tell the whole story, .223 that passes the magnet test dimples steel worse...

    [​IMG]

    ...than non-AP 7.62x39 that fails the magnet test yet is traveling nearly 1K'/sec slower and only smears on AR500:

    [​IMG]

    So if I were to honor the magnet test rule, I would be committing to hurt the steel targets worse with my brass cased .223 instead of common lead core commercial 7.62x39, this all to designed to preserve the targets' integrity... got it :confused:

    :)

    Seriously I would really enjoy coming out and am sure I wouldn't hurt anything.

    7.62x39mm Lives Matter :rolleyes::D
     
  9. MC69

    MC69 Registered Member

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    I agree with your point that the velocity of .223/5.56 ammo is rough on steel. However, it is very difficult to tell if a bullet is steel core AP or just bimetal jacket. The magnet test is the simplest idea to reduce the chance that someone will inadvertently use AP ammo. The magnet test is a standard rule for matches.

    Why not just trade with someone for the steel stage(only 1 stage) or buy limited number of copper plated ammo for steel stages and enjoy the matches. I believe I have some copper plated ammo and will swap a couple boxes with you.
     
  10. burn 'em

    burn 'em Registered Member

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    It is not difficult for me to tell the difference between AP-steel core and bimetal jacketed lead core since I know what I purchase and practice with.

    The offer to trade is kindly appreciated, but I'll have to pass at this time. If the match is handled with the honor system incorporated but my word concerning the tools I use isn't considered acceptable then it doesn't seem like a good time and place for me.

    Have fun and safe shooting to y'all!
     
  11. CentralNChunter

    CentralNChunter Registered Member

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    Recently viewed this, but didn't see the follow up vid showing results.
     
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  12. B00GER

    B00GER Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Just buy a box or two of brass and you are set. No biggie. I use Tulammo almost exclusively, but keep a mag or two of brass loaded for cases where they call for it. 90% or more of the targets will be fine to shoot with bi-metal, so just save the good stuff for the steel targets.

    In other words...it's a range rule...arguing about it here isn't going to change it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. TR_Holsters

    TR_Holsters Registered Member

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    Fellow shooters are willing to trade Ammo at their expense and your refusing! How bad do you really want to come shoot then? If we bend for one we have to bend for all and unfortunately the line must be drawn at some point!

    We hope you take the offer up on the ammo swap and come join us for a kick ass day of shooting! Today was only 9rds on steel with rifle so I'm pretty sure your gun will chew some copper plated just fine!
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
  14. burn 'em

    burn 'em Registered Member

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    It is you are, or more conveniently you're, but not your in this instance. Finite details matter, right or wrong? ;)

    :rolleyes::D

    Obviously I didn't care that much about coming to shoot the match, but I did graciously reply to the offer from MC69 with my reasoning... no arguement involved. There was another who reached out to me via private message which was very kind and I made sure he realized I thought that.

    No offense intended here, but the line drawn that you speak of isn't exactly a precision measurement as evidenced by the video CentralNChunter posted just above. In this case, my chosen tools and I just happen to fall on the other side of this loosely drawn squiggly mark :confused:

    Thanks again for all the input, and I hope the match continues to be fun for all those that choose to participate! My tactical shooting is poor and I would have probably just got in the way slowing everyone else down in the process anyway. No hard feelings from me, and I truly hope that feeling is reciprocal.
     
  15. TR_Holsters

    TR_Holsters Registered Member

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    Thnx for the spell check and have always struggled at spelling. Maybe you come shoot and I could teach you some "tactical shooting" and you could teach me some proper grammar! It's a win win for both of us!

    ;)
     
  16. Stump Jumper

    Stump Jumper Registered Member

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    Here are today's scores, Thanks for coming out for a good of shooting.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Gmarshall1990

    Gmarshall1990 Registered Member

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    was there not a junior class? camron jones signed up for it? But he is listed in center fire with everyone else.
     
  18. B00GER

    B00GER Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    [​IMG]


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  19. Stump Jumper

    Stump Jumper Registered Member

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    Here are the scores with the youth class.
     

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  20. Fatboy Flash

    Fatboy Flash Hall of Shame Club Subscribed

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    That is funny!
     
  21. CentralNChunter

    CentralNChunter Registered Member

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    Burn'em, I hope you decide to give this match a try. Yes you disagree on the green tip steel issue, but it is a good group of guys and a fun match.
    My day really went to crap when my rifle started short stroking my light weight play loads. Guess it was just on the edge of having enough pressure & after several hundred rounds decided it wasn't going to cycle a dirty gun. Stage 2 was basically shot with a straight pull bolt action. Fellow shooter gave me some of his ammo for stage three & it ran like a champ.
    Big thanks to those who put the effort in to provide us with this match, & congrats to Philip, Tony, Dan, and the 11 others that whipped my rear today. :)
     
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  22. burn 'em

    burn 'em Registered Member

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    This doesn't even make sense...

    unless you are capable inferring how a voice is spelling words as it whispers in your ear o_O

     
  23. B00GER

    B00GER Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    [​IMG]



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  24. SuperCuz

    SuperCuz Registered Member

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    Marks like this usually indicate target steel with a brinell hardenss of less than 480, being shot with FMJ at less than 100 yards. Is the steel AR 400 series, or AR 500 series?? Target thickness??
     
  25. burn 'em

    burn 'em Registered Member

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    Interesting you ask. I have a lot to say about that piece of steel I pictured, and another I have(no doubt significantly softer than advertised) from the same vendor. However, that vendor is a member here and may pitch a hissy fit if one questions the integrity of the steel targets he sells.

    To answer your questions directly though... that target is 3/8" thick and is sold as at least AR500 steel. The target was engaged from 100m away using standard non-AP ammo: FMJ lead core steel cased Barnaul 7.62x39 and FMJ lead core brass cased .223 Wolf Gold.
     
  26. SuperCuz

    SuperCuz Registered Member

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    Nothing against his integrity, but if he is buying sheets of AR steel from a reputable source, he should be able to get the info sheets stating the brinell hardness. I would say those targets were made from "mining grade" AR steel which is softer than "target grade" AR steel.. AR steel with a brinell hardness of over 500 costs more per sheet than sheets with a brinell of less than 500.
    A 100 yard shot with FMJ on a plate with a brinell hardness over 500 should look like a moth crashed into the plate and went splat...
    There is a reason MGM targets cost more than others.. They are the only company that guarantees their products to exceed 500 brinell hardness. They buy certified sheets of 500+ brinell AR 400 and AR 500 steel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  27. burn 'em

    burn 'em Registered Member

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    I agree with this 100%.

    This vendor, who by the way owns a highly reputable firearms store in NC, says that he has the material data sheets that confirm the steel sheets he is buy and cutting are always AR500 or better. We had extensive contact questioning the hardness of this specific steel target he sold, yet he never produced said info sheets. He did however accuse me of defaming his business and taking food out of employees mouths because I posted a video on YouTube in reply to one that he posted.

    I truly appreciate your feedback, but we've veered way off topic of this thread. I'll start another... please visit!

    https://www.carolinashootersclub.com...eel-targets-experiences-and-questions.224654/
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  28. TR_Holsters

    TR_Holsters Registered Member

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    "Steel he is BUY and cutting" shouldn't the correct wording be "steel he has bought and cut" as past tense?

    .......and you called me out of grammar! o_O
     
  29. B00GER

    B00GER Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    [​IMG]



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  30. Gtownwrench

    Gtownwrench Lifetime Member Lifetime Member

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    how about some videos, photos or trash talk of the match and leave the grammer contest for somewhere else
     
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