Red Robin in Mooresville posted. :( | Page 2 | Carolina Shooters Club

Red Robin in Mooresville posted. :(

Discussion in 'Firearms News and Firearms related political news' started by sr30, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe I'm told I'm pretty awesome... Lifetime Member

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    I don't see it the same way. It's one thing to talk about property rights at your home. I get that, my house, my rules... But I don't think the same rules should apply across the board to a business property be it public or private. You have to make concessions to the public when you open a business to them. You can't deny people any other right when they are there in a legal fashion. Why are you allowed to deny this right? I can't deny service based on any other civil liberty? Why is 2a an exception? It seems to me once you open a business to the public, you give up a portion of your property rights when you ask for their money...
     
  2. Silver_Bullet

    Silver_Bullet Staff

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    I don't agree with a lot of things, especially so called civil rights acts. Rights extend to everyone across the board. A property owner be it business or home, should be allowed to have his or her own set of rules on their property, as it is their property. Government should not force them to comply. If they do not wish to serve someone, this day in time their business will possibly take the hit and ramifications of such a decision. We have too much government intervention. Some are all for that government intervention they are against when they can force their beliefs or agenda ;)

    If you want or demand that your rights and wishes be respected, you need to respect the wishes and rights of others.

    Remember, a business is not a public place. It may be open to the general public, but it is private and should be allowed to have it's own set of rules. Rights do not extend to private places, even open for the public. If they did, all kind of chaos would occur. You likely will not be allowed into the grocery store and start giving stump speeches (expressing you 1st amendment right) and aggravating customers without the approved privilege allowed by those in charge of the property ;). That's an example of why your rights are not guaranteed on private property. The same applies for open carry, if the owner believes it is aggravating customers, he is able to not allow that right, just as he can not allow free speech or many other rights.

    If we are for Government forcing people to comply, even on private property and in the name of rights, and giving up or chipping away at private property rights be it business or personal , that is a dangerous road. You simply do not want government setting more rules for private property that do not harm.

    Privilege vs Right is often blurred by some guys. ;)

    Silver_Bullet
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  3. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe I'm told I'm pretty awesome... Lifetime Member

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    I don't see self defense as a privilege, regardless of how the law/gov seems to view it. You want to open a business and exclude folks for random stuff you don't like? Fine. Open a private business to private membership. Do as you like. If you open a business to the public then I don't believe you should be allowed to tell me I can't bring my pistol anymore than you can tell my neighbor he cant bring in his kid. Fact of the matter is businesses aren't purely private property. You must, by law, respect the rights of others. This will not change. It should apply to personal protection IMO though. AT THE VERY LEAST, it should not be a criminal act...
     
  4. Noway2

    Noway2 Well-Known Member

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    I'm with John and Bigfelipe on this one. Take the business property rights argument down the hall and maybe you'll find someone who cares. In fact, one of my big legislative wish list items is for signs to carry no legal weight, like they do in MOST states. If you don't respect me or my rights, don't expect me to respect your feelings disguised as rights.

    I'm also with Soreshoulder on this that we need to make noise, but do it politely. Is the GRNC high risk restaurants program still active? This is the sort of thing that it is perfect for.
     
  5. Silver_Bullet

    Silver_Bullet Staff

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    Your right that self defense is not a privilege, no matter where you are, it is a natural right. Bringing items on to private property is a privilege. When you are not allowed to bring a firearm on such property this day in time, your right to defend yourself is severally curtailed. This is why we should advocate not to do business with these places. We should not force them by law with government intervention to comply, that opens up another dangerous road and more government intervention we do not need.

    You just can't force a business to guarantee rights on private property. If you don't like someone's free speech, you should be able to ask them to leave your property. This works the same way with the Second, like it or not.

    Silver_Bullet
     
  6. NCm4

    NCm4 Member

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    Chipotle healthy? Not sure if serious.
     
  7. phideux

    phideux Active Member

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    I agree with Silver Bullet, Respect their right to say what goes on their private property, I have my right to spend my money elsewhere.I'm not gonna break the law and carry there anyway because "concealed is concealed", I'm just not going to go there.
     
  8. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe I'm told I'm pretty awesome... Lifetime Member

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    Well I disagree. I don't see it as private property in the same sense as your home when talking about a business. You can force a business to comply with rights, it's done everyday. I can't deny you a cheeseburger at my restaurant because you are Black, Old, have a kid, gay, or because I disagree with the Obama shirt you wear, even if I wanted to. Your rights are protected as I am open to the public. While I agree fundamentally that you should be able to do as you please with your business that's simply not how it is, nor will it ever be. You are using an argument that your business is the same as your homestead and it's not. You can't lord over tenants on a rental property either, but it's still your private property. When doing business you give up your rights to others in exchange for their money... That's just how I see it. If you figure out a way to go back a couple hundred years and change it all from the ground up, I'd support it. I'm all for folks doing business as they please. Wanna be a racist or bigot and put up a sign that says "No Blacks" or "No gays" go ahead. Good luck with that, I wouldn't patronize you. Personally I would love to go to a restaurant that didn't allow children. I don't have any and don't like being around them when I'm dropping good money on a meal. Guess what? Not legal. When it is, I'll consider your argument valid.
     
  9. 9outof10mms

    9outof10mms Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    ...and Bingo was his name-o!...
     
  10. 9outof10mms

    9outof10mms Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    This is better put than I could have done. I've always had that thought that while it is a privately-owned establishment, it is wide open to the public. In that sense, everything legal out int eh right-of-way should be legal in the public establishment.

    Now I'll assume the position to be lashed by those appalled at my notion that someone's privately owned establishment should be subjected to something the owners don't like...and I'll refer you to BigF's post after each strike!
     
  11. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe I'm told I'm pretty awesome... Lifetime Member

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    Exactly my point...
     
  12. mj1angier

    mj1angier Grumpy old fart Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    Agree 100%
     
  13. Silver_Bullet

    Silver_Bullet Staff

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    This is where we will disagree. While business's are forced to comply in certain situations, they should not be, and we don't need more forced compliance. If you don't want someone's free speech you disagree with, or don't like on your property, business or personal, you should be able to ask them to leave. I will take issue if someone is asked to leave or disallowed on public property because of exercising a right, or if government asks them to leave on property they have the privilege to exercise their right on.

    Some of you guys just don't get you simply can not have your right guaranteed anywhere you wish. Furthermore it's not a good stance for our cause of trying to get people to open up to our second amendment right and understand it. When we don't understand it ourselves, it's hard to convince others, or to help them understand it.

    As far as your Civil Rights issues you bring up, I'm a libertarian, so I shouldn't need to explain my stance on civil rights. Once it starts harming an individual, then it's a problem. Right's extend equally, this is an issue with Civil Rights these days, it's not exactly equal. Your wanting to force something on someone.
     
  14. Silver_Bullet

    Silver_Bullet Staff

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    Should you be allowed to give political speeches in front of Walmart any time you wish?

    By the way, most businesses are not a public establishments. They are private establishments that invite the public in.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  15. mj1angier

    mj1angier Grumpy old fart Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    This is where we as a people have screwed ourselves. By forcing a business to take everyone- even someone they don't want- as a customer, their right have been repressed in favor of someone else. If a business wants to exclude someone, it should be their right to do so. And they have to live the fallout from that.

    A lot of us bitch and gripe when another "group, class, race, religion, sexual preference.." gets a break and our rights get pushed aside, but this is what we are asking to happen here. As CCW, we are a minority and we are asking for something that the business does not want to give. So we feel we need to make a law about it. Sounds just like laws for religion, civil rights, Gay rights, immigration rights.... And how many of us have bitched about some of those.

    To me, the best thing is to wipe the slate clean- if I want to post " NO blue eye, big boob, sandy vagina men allowed" I should be able to.
     
  16. 9outof10mms

    9outof10mms Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    I realize there is no cut and dry cutoff with my statement...I don't even know where to begin. This is probably why society takes the easy way out and just bans every darn thing under the sun. It's too hard to pick it apart since everyone wants to be litigious today (not you specifically...everyone). If we can't please every last one of 'em, then we'll ban 'em all.
     
  17. jcs3876

    jcs3876 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    This is entirely different, Walmart more than likely owns the building and property where as 90% of "privately Owned" restaurant businesses are not owned by the business owner. The property and building is more than likely rented to the business owner. An example would be: LongHorn steakhouse and it's other restaurants are all part of a larger corporation called Rare Hospitality. They named it Rare Hospitality because in the restaurant industry it is extremely rare that the property and building is owned by the business owner and Rare Hospitality does not open the doors to a new restaurant until it is owned outright. It seems to me that all the bitching that goes on is self inflicted. These people have no authority over anything and you are letting them dictate where and when you can protect yourself when really you should be standing up for your right when in fact you are giving someone the power to take it away. If you're going to fight for your right to own and carry then do it the whole way not just when it's convenient or unchallenged.
     
  18. mj1angier

    mj1angier Grumpy old fart Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    And running with this train of thought- a church is a public place. Should a wife swapping, porn star be allowed to stand up on Sunday a tell everyone that they need to convert to Buddhism.

    I mean its a public place and all....
     
  19. J.Boyette

    J.Boyette Teacher of the Craft Lifetime Member

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    Guys,

    The point is being missed.

    You should follow the signs as the law is written. If you choose not too you are a outlaw until you get caught. Then you might be a convict.

    Roll the dice as you will, but property rights, feelings, and the law of the land are what they are. Until its changed.

    One side note, when at the mall, always enter at Sears. ;)

    John
     
  20. mj1angier

    mj1angier Grumpy old fart Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    If this is true, then if you rent an apartment, you have no rights other than what the land owner says you have?
     
  21. Inebriated

    Inebriated Active Member

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    That's because you're eating a massive tortilla that's just empty calories and quite a bit of sodium. The bowl, salad, and tacos are a lot better, long as you pick the right stuff.





    Relative to RR and a lot of other chains, I'm completely serious. Relative to anything you could make yourself, no. Note that I said "healthier". At least I think that's what I said lol
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  22. jcs3876

    jcs3876 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    You have the rights that a tenant would have. Legally you can't change the locks without the ok of the property owner why would this be any different? If it's the property owners sign then do what you will but, concealed is concealed and i'll be entering through Sears with John!
     
  23. mj1angier

    mj1angier Grumpy old fart Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    Ok, the "my rights are better than your rights" school. Understand now.
     
  24. Sneakymedic

    Sneakymedic being super sneaky Club Subscribed

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    This entire conversation looks familiar. (see Target thread)
     
  25. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe I'm told I'm pretty awesome... Lifetime Member

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    If you read what I wrote, you'll see we don't disagree in ideology, only in the reality of the situation. My point is that regardless of how you would like it to be, this is HOW IT IS. It's not gonna change back, ever. Period. Not without a complete breakdown/reset. Hang it up. I've come to terms with that. That said, we can shoot for a little equality across the board instead. If it's a given that civil rights are enforceable in public(even on private property), then all civil rights should be enforceable in as far as they don't impact the rights of others. My carrying a weapon in a restaurant in no way impacts the right of those around me to go about their life, nor does the guy beside me being black or gay or Christian or Jew affect mine. I like fantasy as much as the next person and agree with where you gentlemen are coming from, but I live in reality where your view on the subject does not live...
     
  26. NCm4

    NCm4 Member

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    Fo sho. Only reason I know is because I would eat it after working out ironically. One day I decided to look and couldn't believe the sodium, fat and calories. Like you said, relative to other places, there are some decent options.


    As far as the carrying piece. I just won't go to RR and will respect their right to post. They make decisions, I make decisions and it's that easy.
     
  27. Hybrid Moments Pass

    Hybrid Moments Pass Active Member

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    sure about this?
    I've seen them in strip malls before, so Im certain they were leasing the building/area
     
  28. 9outof10mms

    9outof10mms Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Again...well said. I will now use the funny meme I found on the interwebs as it seem appropriate...or I could just be too anxious to use it:
    3552967.jpg
     
  29. jcs3876

    jcs3876 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Not quite sure how you read that but, ok. You continue to let others dictate your right and me well, my rights don't depend on the situation or location. It keeps getting mentioned as a law when it's not. It's a piece of paper that criminals don't abide by so why would I? especially if I am a law abiding citizen who happens to "CONCEAL CARRY". Also for example, I don't have room for a lock box or gun safe in my car so if I was carrying and ended up at the mall is it responsible of me to leave my gun in the car for someone to possibly breaking and get or better off taking it in with me concealed?
     
  30. Silver_Bullet

    Silver_Bullet Staff

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    LOL good advice, I always enter where there is no sign ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014

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