SC man charged for shooting teen stealing from car | Carolina Shooters Club

SC man charged for shooting teen stealing from car

Discussion in 'Firearms News and Firearms related political news' started by 11B CIB, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. 11B CIB

    11B CIB Taking a break, eh Club Subscribed

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    http://m.wistv.com/wistv/db/330790/content/ALuAdE3u

    Shot and killed a 17 year old who, after stealing items from the owners, was running off.

    Kershaw County sheriff made the following statement:

    "...“Jimmy Methe and his family went to bed last night with no idea that a few hours later he would shoot and kill someone who had tried to steal from him and his family,” Sheriff Jim Matthews with the KSCO said. “Brandon Spencer may not have even gone to bed last night, planning with his buddy to steal from an innocent homeowner. He certainly had no idea he would end up dead. The law states that you can use deadly force to protect yourself, your family or someone who is in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. The law does not allow you to shoot and kill someone who has stolen from you and is fleeing. Unfortunately, Jimmy Methe made a split second bad decision and will now face criminal charges. Law abiding citizens are frustrated with the failure of our criminal justice system that really does not deter crime. Situations like what occurred early this morning are more and more likely to be the result of that frustration.”
     
  2. AD43576

    AD43576 Active Member

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    Hopefully the guy gets a sympathetic jury.
     
  3. ArbowAxle

    ArbowAxle Registered Member

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    I have no sympathy for a thief........
     
  4. SPST

    SPST Well-Known Member

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    I have no sympathy for anyone who shoots a fleeing thief in the back...........
     
  5. SPST

    SPST Well-Known Member

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    How many wanted the Charleston police officer who shot the guy running away to have a sympathetic jury? Wasn't he wanted on non payment of child support or something? Isn't that stealing from his kids?
     
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  6. ArbowAxle

    ArbowAxle Registered Member

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    The way I see it...... he did us a favor...... one less thief running around. That could be your property being stolen next time.
     
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  7. Goofyfoot2001

    Goofyfoot2001 Active Member

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    Here's my problem. I have VIDEO of a guy opening packages on my FRONT PORCH about five years back and give the video to cops. I call them and they have done nothing. I then send the VIDEO to the chief of police. I get NO RESPONSE back. This is a small town that has NO CRIME to speak of. Plain to see it's a Red pickup as well. They HAVE THE TIME. WTF!

    I say the kid shouldn't have been stealing. Shame but that's the chances you take when you flk with other peoples things.

    They would want me on that jury.
     
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  8. jerdawn13

    jerdawn13 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    I hate a thief as well, but I don't have anything in my vehicles worth killing/dying over. Possessions can be replaced, life can not.
     
  9. michael52

    michael52 Registered Member

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    never know one of you might have a kid one day that steals and is shot in the back....even good kid sjump off track even if one time, thats all it takes

    .would you feel the same...you dont feel your life is in danger you just cant do it no matter how bad you want too...you can but it aint gonna end well for you....

    keep up with the guy than ran the guy down and cut his arm off

    see which one ends up worse....the disarmed guy probably had nothing, no job, money etc, nothing to lose

    the other guy probably did and has a hell of a lot to lose and will

    Its the law
     
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  10. jerdawn13

    jerdawn13 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Thank God I have never been put in that situation. I hope I would be level headed enough to make smart choices.
     
  11. bondjamesbond

    bondjamesbond Прошлой неделе

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    Knee jerk reaction, and a bad one at that.
    Sorry for both families.
    Stuff like this makes us CCW guys look like we are all trigger happy bloodthirsty maniacs.
     
  12. Lawless

    Lawless Never Back Down

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    Usual suspects

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Noway2

    Noway2 Well-Known Member

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    I'm dealing with a crooked contractor that stole almost 1 million dollars from several homeowners and businesses here in central NC. Clear evidence of felony bad checks, taking property under false pretenses, tax evasion, and embezzlement. Several of us have gone to the police in several counties with evidence. Has anything been done? Hell, no. Yet they'll prosecute someone stealing a moped and were supposed to accept the idea that justice belongs to the system? No. Never. Again.

    I wold be a very sympathetic juror. The thief chose his destiny.
     
  14. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    While I have no sympathy for the thief, I can't agree with shooting him after he's already fled...the justification just isn't there any longer.

    In fact, if the circumstances in the media are accurate (kid was stealing from the truck , nobody around), then the justification was never there in the first place.

    This was a bad shoot from the very beginning, and we really have no business advocating otherwise regardless of how we feel about a thief. If we, who claim to be upright, law abiding citizens, deliberately choose NOT to follow the laws with respect to self-defense and deadly force, then we're no better than the thief...worse, even.


    Feel free to have no sympathy for the thief. But don't kid yourself that what happened to him was wrong.
     
  15. diablos30

    diablos30 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    does the law mete out justice, or protect the guilty from true punishment?
     
  16. jb2sea

    jb2sea Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    I would have let loose with a few into the air. But no way he should have shot a kid in the back. The law is pretty clear. Shoot to defend life, but not to defend property.

    If I were on that jury, it would depend on what they charge him with.

    Doesn't make CCW holders look bad. It doesn't say what he used, or if he was a CCW holder. Least not in the one story I read. It could just as easily been a double barrel shotgun.
     
  17. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    A good question.

    Let's look at the concept of "laws" and what they're in place for.

    Laws are in place so that people can organize and interact in societies on a peaceful basis. They provide a common framework of rules by which people know what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, and offer up various ways to enforce the laws and punish those who violate them.

    All societies have such rules, even families. Parents, for example, set the rules for acceptable/unacceptable behavior and provide a framework of enforcement and punishments in order to maintain order within the family. (Among other things.)


    Justice is a related concept with several definitions, but the one most applicable to this discussion is:

    "the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness"

    Interestingly, what is "justice" for one person may not be "justice" for another and we can debate examples of this back and forth ad infinitum, each scenario tailored to fit our own point of view...and yet, each scenario no less valid than any other.


    Punishments are levied IF the person is caught, IF there is sufficient evidence, IF the person is charged, and IF the person is convicted. A lot of ifs...and some of them in place to place a check on the government empowered to enforce the laws.

    Loosely speaking, the punishments for various violations of the law are weighted based on the severity of the crime in question. They could be warnings, fines, prison time, community service, execution, etc. Since execution is the "ultimate" punishment, after which there can be no hope of redemption (or restitution if it turns out the government was wrong), it's only levied for the worst of offenses. Punishments run the full range, from warnings to fines to prison to execution. Part of the concept of "justice" is recognition that not all punishments are necessarily "just".


    Executions are state sanctioned killings carried out by the state against a citizen(s). Before the state is allowed to execute someone, it must prove that the person is guilty of the applicable crime AND that execution is warranted. And it must do so before a jury of citizens.

    Justifiable homicides are killings of one citizen by another under conditions in which the state recognizes as "OK" under the rule of law. In this case, the killing happens under extenuating circumstances in which there is NO opportunity for "peer review", as in the case of state executions. As such, the state investigates and makes a determination whether or not the killing was "justified" and whether or not to charge the person. After which the person will go to a trial before a jury, if charged.

    Both are killings. Both are ultimate forms of punishment. But in each case, the killing has to be justified. In state executions, this is done in a jury trial. In homicide, this determination is done after the fact...the person is already dead.


    Now, back to the original question justice or protection with respect to the thief.

    The law is there to mete out justice while concurrently protecting the rights of the citizens...thief or no. And if we want to debate "justice" with respect to what happened, we can start by taking a look at what happened in this case and compare it to what WOULD have happened had the thief been caught, prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and was awarded the maximum punishment under the law:

    What happened: The thief was caught stealing and was shot/killed while running away.

    What WOULD have happened if awarded maximum punishment by the state:

    Petty larceny (<$2,000) : Max fine: $1,000. Max prison: 30 days

    Grand theft (> $2,000, but less than $10,000): Max fine: at discretion of court. Max prison: 5 years.

    Grand larceny (>$10,000): Max fine: at discretion of court. Max prison: 10 years.


    So, can this be called "justice" when the citizen who killed the thief did so under conditions in which the state is not allowed to punish more than $1,000 and 30 days in jail?


    When we make the decision to use deadly force against another, we are SUPPOSED to do so only under the most dire circumstances and in accordance with the laws. Those same laws with which we both empower AND restrict the government by. If we don't do this, then we are placing ourselves above the law. If we're above the law, then we've lost the concept of "justice" right there.
     
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  18. phulish

    phulish Registered Member

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    I feel sometimes crimes like this are disregarded by the police and they often give the impression that they really can't do anything about it despite overwhelming evidence.
     
  19. JamesLFlowers

    JamesLFlowers Well-Known Member

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    The problem with using that as an example is there is a whole lot about that case that we, the public, are not being told. We are only getting one side of the story, the side the media want told.

    Sadly, in this case, the shooter is in the wrong legally in NC as far as the available information describes the situation.
     
  20. diablos30

    diablos30 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    so in this case the law protects the thief, because if this happened in texas there would be no issue. words on paper...
     
  21. Goofyfoot2001

    Goofyfoot2001 Active Member

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    He you would be arrested for discharging your firearm within the city limits probably. What happened to investigators? Do they not let cops investigate things are are they relegated to traffic stops? I get the detectives spending all day hopefully doing investigative work but I'd rather see a cop investigating crimes than sitting on his duff with a speed gun.
     
  22. SPM

    SPM Permanently Banned Lifetime Member

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    Too bad 'Ole Jimbo didn't have a badge to go with his gun. Then the split second nature of the decision would be an adequate defense for no charges being filed.....especially if no video evidence exists of the encounter.

    I cannot stand a thief, but I also don't know that a death sentence is the right answer when no threat to life exists, either. Bad decision yes, but he should face no more consequences than someone with more training and experience with "split second decisions" that result in the death of the accused.
     
  23. Noway2

    Noway2 Well-Known Member

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    As a juror, I would have a hard time taking away his life because he made a bad split second decision on how to handle a thief, even if that's what the govt. tells me to do.
     
  24. SPST

    SPST Well-Known Member

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    How is it a split second decision if you see a guy running away from your vehicle that's parked in your drive? I guess it's a split second decision to shoot before they get out of range, not because your life is in danger?
     
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  25. chiefjason

    chiefjason Vendor Vendor

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    We had a drive by here last month. It got a whopping 30 minutes of investigating. At the wrong house. On the wrong side of the road. They did not knock on a single door or ask anyone else any questions. Even when they were told they were wrong. And didn't bother to even pick up the shell casings.

    But they sent 4 cars to find a neighbor saturday and spent a good bit of time running around town looking for folks. Gotta protect us from the teens I guess.

    Mr. Sheriff (from the article), frustrated does not begin to cover my feelings about out local PD now.
     
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  26. Noway2

    Noway2 Well-Known Member

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    The more I think about this, the more I keep coming back to the same conclusion: that had the thief not chosen to try to gain by harming another person then they would still be alive.

    As an appropriate reparation for the shooter, I could see something like donating X amount of time doing something like coaching or mentoring disadvantaged youths, or some similar activity that would help prevent someone else from going down the path that the thief would. Putting him in prison, would be a no go in my book that accomplishes nothing. Unfortunately, I don't think that this sort of thing will even be an option on the table.
     
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  27. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    So, what you're saying here is that it's "right", "moral", and "just" to shoot a thief who isn't presenting a threat to life or limb, and who is running away from (attempting) to steal something that's not inherently dangerous to other people? (Yes, I'm making the assumption here that there were no stolen weapons involved.)

    First of all, this isn't Texas where this happened, so that's a moot point...just as this didn't happen in the UK, Australia, Russia, or some other country outside the United States entirely. This took place in SC.

    Your profile says Goldsboro, presumably in NC. NC laws on deadly force and justifiable homicide aren't appreciably different than those in the area where this kid was killed. If this had been you who shot and killed that kid in your own jurisdiction, then I'm thinking "But it's OK because it's legal in Texas" isn't going to hold up very well in a court of law.

    We go over this kind of stuff all the time, with respect to what is "right", "moral", "just", and "legal". When discussing the laws of various other jurisdictions, we frequently discuss them with respect to these traits. We've any number of threads where we discuss the various laws across the states with regards to exactly these things.


    "so in this case the law protects the thief"...show me where this is the case here. I saw no such protection here at all...the kid's dead. The law obviously didn't do much protecting for this kid.


    The simple reality is that we have laws which say that killing another human being is such a serious offense that it is ONLY legally allowed under certain, narrow circumstances. And simple theft isn't one of them.

    If it were, then we'd be killing people right and left over stupid stuff all the time, like kids stealing candy, taking office supplies home from work, and pickpockets.
     
  28. diablos30

    diablos30 Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    i'm well aware of the law, and wouldn't put myself in a similar predicament; however, i also know my rights as a juror, and would never vote to convict as i believe a person has just as much right to protect property as they do life.
     
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  29. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    Certainly...the kid took a risk and the odds didn't play out in his favor in the end.

    An interesting idea on reparations. However, in the spirit of extremism we're seeing in this thread, I'd like to offer another suggestion.

    Doubtlessly, there will be cries of loss of a son from this kid's family, which they will say no amount of reparations can return. Perhaps a suitable reparation would be for this guy to knock the kid's mama up so she can have another kid.

    Just a thought, since the thread has a pretty good spread of extreme viewpoints anyway.

    ;)
     
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  30. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    And that's fine. You're entitled to your beliefs.

    But where do you draw the line? What moral/ethical basis to you base your concept of "justice" on?
     

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