Carolina Shooters Forum banner
  • Please post in our Community Feedback thread for help with the new forum software! If you are having trouble logging in, please Contact Us for assistance.

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 77 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,863 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I figured I would cross post this thread as well to add to the NFA information in this forum.

After finding countless articles on how to file the NFA paperwork for an SBR as an individual and not much on how to do it with a trust I decided to wing it. I found out quickly how confusing it can all be, so I contacted another forum member that I knew had gone this route on his own and asked for help. My intent was to give him credit, but he doesn't want it. He knows who he is though, and a great big thank you to him as I would have never figured this out on my own.

I decided to put this all down so that others can have an easier go of it. It really is quite simple if you know what you are doing.

Step 1 is the trust. You can pay an attorney a lot of money to set this up, but there is no reason to do that. There are a few software options out there for setting up a trust, but most people recommended Quicken. They have a good name so that is what I went with. You can purchase a program called "Will Maker" from Quicken for about $75.00 (which worked out well since my wife and I needed to get our wills done anyway). This price gives you free access to www.nolo.com for a year. That is where you will find the online trust documents. Or you can go to this link http://www.nolo.com/products/online-...st-NNTRUS.html and pay $89.00 for unlimited access to just a trust document.
The software walks you through everything and is very easy to navigate. It took me about 1 hour to complete. Make sure you follow all the links and designate people for all of the fields. When you get to the portion for the assets you are placing in the trust, make sure you put a couple of items other than the firearm in there (something about the ATF and NC not liking trusts for the sole purpose of procuring NFA items). I put a leather bound book collection, a commemorative silver dollar and my Marine Corps Uniforms and Citations.
When you are through, take the entire document to your bank, sign it and have it notarized. Now make 2 photocopies (1 for your records and one for the ATF). You will mail just one of the copies to the ATF. Note, there is no provision in NC that says you must register your trust at the courthouse. Do so if you want, but it is not required. Just remember to store the original in a fire proof safe.
Step 2 is the ATF paperwork. Go to this website http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/ and find form 5320.1 Application to Make and Register a Firearm (about halfway down).
Here is a step by step guide to each item you need to fill out (it is very confusing for trusts and the directions are not clear.
Section 1 - (on the right hand side) click an X on the first block "Tax Paid"
Section 2 - click an X on Corporation or Other Business Entity
Section 3a - Trade Name: Type in the name of your trust (i.e Joe F. Schmuck Revocable Living Trust).
Section 3b - Applicants Name and Address: Put the name of the trust (the same as 3a), followed by your home address.
Section 3d - County (county like Forsyth you live in not Country)
Section 3e - Telephone number with area code
Section 4a - Name and location of original manufacturer: Whatever brand lower you have (Spikes, Bushmaster etc) followed by the city and state they reside in.
Section 4b - Type "Short-Barreled Rifle"
Section 4c - Caliber: Be specific as in 5.56 x 45
Section 4d - Model : Whatever your exact model is.
Section 4e - length of barrel (be specific with decimal points as in 11.5 or 7.3)
Section 4f- Overall Length (be specific with decimal points)
Section 4g - Serial number
Section 4h - Additional description: What you will have engraved on the receiver as in Joe F. Schmuck Revocable Living Trust / Somewhere, NC
Section 4i - Type this exactly "Scientific Research and Development per NC GS 14.288.8" (without the quotes).
Section 4j - Click an X next to No.

Answer the question in 10 and 11 truthfully and then print 2 copies.

Now you want to sign sections 7 and 8 and date (at the bottom of the first page) on both copies. The signature should be followed by Trustee on both lines. "Joe F. Schmuck, Trustee".

That's it. Place both "Wet ink" copies of the ATF form and (1) photo copy of the entire trust document with schedule A (all 30 or however many pages) in a big manila envelope. Don't forget to include a check or money order for the $200.00 (I have heard that doing a money order and putting the Trust name in the from column is best) and mail the package off to the address at the top of the ATF form.

Note, with a trust there is no need for a photo, fingerprint cards or Sherriff signature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,713 Posts
Section 4h - Additional description: What you will have engraved on the receiver as in Joe F. Schmuck Revocable Living Trust / Somewhere, NC
"Tony K" the NFA mod over on Arfcom is adamant about NOT doing this. He claims it is unnecessary, just another place to mess up, and slows things down. It's a given that you're going to get the item engraved and what you have to have engraved. There's more to it but I forget the rest of his argument. He makes some good points and I'm convinced that it's best to leave 4h blank.

Regardless, great post, thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
Thanks for the write-up. I have heard it is appropriate to put "multi" when it asks for caliber, so you can basically swap whatever upper on the lower. Is this correct? Also, what do you do if you are unsure on the length of the upper you are going to use? Don't you just register the lower? I guess the same applies to overall length as well. Could you put "adjustable between xx.x-yy.y" Thanks for any direction.

Sorry my post refers to AR-platform rifles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,713 Posts
Thanks for the write-up. I have heard it is appropriate to put "multi" when it asks for caliber, so you can basically swap whatever upper on the lower. Is this correct? Also, what do you do if you are unsure on the length of the upper you are going to use? Don't you just register the lower? Thanks for any direction.

Sorry my post refers to AR-platform rifles.
You can no longer put "multi". You can still switch to different calibers/uppers whenever you want, as long as you can still put it back to it's original registered configuration. If you register it as a 5.56mm 10.5" barrel and no longer own a 5.56mm 10.5" barrel then you've made a permanent change and must notify the ATF.

If you're unsure of the barrel length you need to figure it out ;) Yes you are registering the lower but you are registering the lower to build a complete firearm and they want to know the barrel length and caliber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
Good to know because another weapon I was looking at buying and SBRing was an HK UMP/USC and that means I'd need to talk with the gunsmith who's going to shorten it and confirm length before anything was done. Makes sense I guess.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,863 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You can no longer put "multi". You can still switch to different calibers/uppers whenever you want, as long as you can still put it back to it's original registered configuration. If you register it as a 5.56mm 10.5" barrel and no longer own a 5.56mm 10.5" barrel then you've made a permanent change and must notify the ATF.

If you're unsure of the barrel length you need to figure it out ;) Yes you are registering the lower but you are registering the lower to build a complete firearm and they want to know the barrel length and caliber.
I did not know this. I was just kicking myself last week, because I want to build a 300 blackout shorty for this lower as well and thought I was going to have to send an amendment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
624 Posts
If you're unsure of the barrel length you need to figure it out ;) Yes you are registering the lower but you are registering the lower to build a complete firearm and they want to know the barrel length and caliber.
my understanding is that you want to go with the shortest barrel you intend to use on that lower when you do the paperwork, ie. can't decide if you want a 7.5 in barrel or a 10? Go with the 7.5 to start with, and you can add the 10 (and be covered, because it is longer than it was "registered" with) at a later date, as long as you still own the 7.5. If I'm wrong someone please let me know.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,876 Posts
my understanding is that you want to go with the shortest barrel you intend to use on that lower when you do the paperwork, ie. can't decide if you want a 7.5 in barrel or a 10? Go with the 7.5 to start with, and you can add the 10 (and be covered, because it is longer than it was "registered" with) at a later date, as long as you still own the 7.5. If I'm wrong someone please let me know.
+1

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,686 Posts
I already have an irrevocable trust set up for my family. Will that existing trust work for this purpose as well? In other words, can I add the SBR provisions to my existing trust or does another trust have to be created? Not sure how all this works. Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,876 Posts
I already have an irrevocable trust set up for my family. Will that existing trust work for this purpose as well? In other words, can I add the SBR provisions to my existing trust or does another trust have to be created? Not sure how all this works. Thanks.
Your current Trust will work

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,863 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I included the 5330.20 just in case.

One question left though, are you sure that you need to sign in BOTH 7 & 8 or should you sign in 7 and print your name in 8?
Sorry for the delay. Whatever the for says.....do that. So if it says sign and print do that. I honestly don't remember what the for says and it may be an error in my write-up.
 
1 - 20 of 77 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top