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Discussion in 'Firearms News and Firearms related political news' started by Wahoo95, Apr 7, 2015.
Sorry, but Mr. Scott is dead, and the LEO is not. No amount of money can bring him back.
No argument from me on your statement.
Given time, we all die.
If Mr. Scott practiced a religious faith, perhaps he's in a better place.
For some reason, we always equate punishment to jail time. My point is that is not always the case.
The sad fact is that Mr. Scott will now provide for his family in a means that he could never of hoped to while he was alive.
If I sound callous, apologies, that is not my intention, only stating what I feel inevitably will happen.
I know if I were to die unjustly at the hands of another, given the choice, I'd rather have my loved ones taken care of for the rest of their lives than have the person responsible for those actions spend the rest of their life in jail (if only given the choice of one).
Ahhhhh, the age old concept of the blood price.
Certainly possible. I think manslaughter is much more likely than murder. And I won't rule out an acquittal.
A grand jury didn't even indict the cop whose chokehold led to Eric Garner's death, so even a manslaughter conviction for Slager is no slam dunk.
Sorry, could you explain "blood price"?
Personally, I thought it was the age old concept that the life we live in this world isn't the life we aspire, but believe and hope to be someplace better after this worldly life.
As far as money goes, how many innocent men in this country do you think have been killed unjustifiably by the state or government and have NOT had their families taken care of due to their own wrongful deaths?
So a police officer that seems to be calm, cool and collected during the stop somehow turns into a murdering racist in a matter of a minute or two. Just not buying it. This guy found himself in a predicament that put him in fear for his life. That probably was the fact of having his tazer taken after a scuffle with a person that just ran for no reason.
If his training took him to draw his gun and fire, then it's the training and the runner that brought us here.
Bottom line ... no running, no fighting, no tazer taking .... no problem.
I'm not sure about taking the tazer because it isn't on the video, doesn't match the eyewitness statement, and it was relocated by the LEO.
I am certain this video shows Mr. Scott was running away, and was shot multiple times by this former LEO.
Whatever Mr. Scott was guilty of, he didn't receive due process, and the lethal force used by this former LEO was not justified.
He looked pretty calm, when he took time to aim and fire. Heck, he even took an extra second to squeeze off that final round.
By all appearances he never hoped to do anything, he flat out chose not to provide for his family...
Well hot damn, thanks for saving the state of South Carolina the expense of a trial...
After the Tazer is fired, it becomes a "contact weapon". The only threat it presents to the officer at that point in time is if Mr. Scott is physically approaching/attacking the officer with it. He cannot shoot the officer with the Tazer until another cartridge is installed in the Tazer.
Since Mr. Scott is running AWAY from the officer, with absolutely no demonstrated intent to return, the actual physical threat to the officer is ZERO.
Since the Tazer is considered a "less lethal" weapon, and the next best thing to "non-leathal" in fact, Mr. Scott represents no clear and present danger to the public, even if he had it.
Unlike Mr. Scott, he will have his day in the court. That pesky due process tidbit in The Constitution, he took from Mr. Scott.
Please share what details you know about his failure to pay child support for this 16-year-old and other two in their 20's.
Maybe, but at the moment he fired those 8 rounds his life was not in imminent danger... at least to reasonable and objective people.
Where did you get that "fact"? That isn't observable on the video nor did the officer report it via radio traffic or in the dashcam conversation with a supervisor after the shooting.
Really? I thought it was the man who drew his service weapon and fired 8 rounds at a fleeing suspects back striking him 5 times. Blame the training? How about some personal responsibility for what looks to be an awful decision?
Bottom line... it doesn't matter what happened prior to the shooting because the shooting wasn't justified... hence the arrest and subsequent charges. This thug will get his day in court or plea to a lesser charge.
How many times have we heard this from you before ... Martin, Brown .... It never seems to turn out the way you are so sure it is.
ps... we shall see
How many times have we had video of the actual shooting?
As I said, this thug who used to have a badge will get his day in court unless he takes a plea... which may be in his best interest unless he cares to attempt to explain why he shot a fleeing man in the back and moved evidence.
While not a shooting, there was video of Eric Garner being choked.
No doubt, and it was a travesty that the grand jury chose not to indict. I was speaking specifically to the incidents mentioned though.
For what it's worth, I disagreed with Krabba on both the Martin and Brown cases. I agree with him on this one though.
I have to say this is an outstanding read. You gentleman have my respect to say the least. An honest debate over a pressing issue like this...
I do have to add one thing to this debate.
This whole situation is sad for America. The way I see it a man felt he had to run because he in a situation where he may go to jail over child support payments. Let me say this again. A 50 year old man owed child support payments and felt he had to run from the police. What was he going to the bank? (Sorry had too. If we don't laugh then crying is next). But wait this gets better. A police officer (ok former) ran down a 50 year old man and could not call for back up and subdue him? He just had to shoot him 8 times to stop him from getting away? Wow... Just Wow. My eyes can't be seeing things and my DVR doesn't lie. That police officer shot at a man 8 time who was running away. Period.
JMO. He will be going to jail for 7 to 10 and may get out in 5 years. Not all police are bad but I am sure the ones that are will be flying straighter now that they know citizens will be videotaping their every moves more now then ever.
Sweet Jesus I've seen it all!!
That was NYC. Different animal entirely.
I see the whole child support element as immaterial. A lot of people have taken that tact. "Damn, killed over child support payments. Mm mm mmm."
The cop didn't know why he was running. He didn't know it was child support delinquency any more than he knew if the guy had a three year old chained up in his basement.
The guy didn't deserve to get shot. But he didn't have to run. He chose to run. He chose not to pay child support. He may have chosen to fight the officer.
I think ultimately the cop fucked up, and should answer for it. But I don't think there was malice. I don't think he's a "thug" that saw the deceased as less than a human being like some here want to believe. I think he had a fleeing suspect fight him and in the heat of the moment he pulled the trigger when he didn't need to.
If dude had stayed in the car everyone would have gone home.
Careful...according to one person, you might just cause an escalation of force by a couple orders of magnitude:
There's just no other way with Ebola. We need to be napalming villages from the air right now. RT @gracels No, but I wouldn't kill them.
— Todd Kincannon (@Todd__Kincannon) October 4, 2014
@gracels I'm fine with that too. But if somebody gets through and has Ebola, kill it with fire and salt the earth. Compassion is a killer.
— Todd Kincannon (@Todd__Kincannon) October 4, 2014
From reports he ran because he had a bench warrant for failure to pay CS. Did I miss something else about Mr Scott?
Also, from reports the fighting came from the thought of being tased. Did I missing anything else from what is being reported?
I think our new suspect was a 'Thug with a badge and a gun". He became that when he shot a man in the back and tampered with evidence.
Again, I will say this is sad for America. This showed a very ugly side of it for the world to see again.
One last thing... The mother of Mr Scott deserved better than his final outcome for sure. There is no payment that will bring her son back. That is one mistake I hope none of us will have to live through... But if we do I pray I have God by side to forgive like she said she did...
Why he ran is irrelevant. No cop would know why. They would just see a fleeing suspect.
You're not allowed to go hands on with a cop just because he threatened to taze you. What does that have to do with anything?
Maybe. Or maybe he fucked up and tried to cover his ass. I don't know that he was a thug, abusing his power on the regular. Regardless, he deserves jail time for that day, imo.
the guys dead
Say's who? with the fall out lately this could very well be cya to make sure your city doesn't burn.
Innocent until proven guilty???
So will the Officer and his training
I could really care less about this case and think the officer is done and over. but when you take someone's full statement and try to break it down you can always make it fit your narrative.
Would an officer that tried to make an arrest on a suspect and subsequently had that suspect not only commit the violent felony of battery upon that officer but also committed felony resisting arrest with a deadly weapon*, have probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of physical harm to the officer or others?
That is the legal standard... Not the "I saw this on a video standard" not "I think the news articles said this" but the legal standard that will be used in court.
And since the suspect had already committed multiple violent felonies on a law enforcement officer, it is not a stretch to believe that probable cause would exist to believe that further violent acts were likely. And nothing I have seen yet has said that the cop had the chance to search the guy and knew that he was 100% unarmed.
Again, I do not know that the claim of the guy using the taser on the cop is legit, so my above statements are based on if they are...
*SC law defined a deadly weapon as a weapon that CAN inflict deadly force... Since a taser can indeed be fatal, it likely qualifies for the purposes of criminal charges.
Blood price, or blood money, is financial restitution paid to the family for the murder of their loved one by the person who murdered them. Personally I don't think it's a terrible idea, I think a lot of these officers and thugs on the street combined might think twice if they knew there was a financial consequence to their actions.
Considering that the vast majority of people convicted of murder were broke or nearly broke before their trial and almost certainly broke after being convicted, how would you collect?