True single action striker fired | Carolina Shooters Club

True single action striker fired

Discussion in 'Handguns, Pistol Shooting' started by bimmerland, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. bimmerland

    bimmerland Registered Member

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    I've heard ramblings about some manufacturers coming out with a true single action striker pistol. Can anyone recommend some manufacturers that make these guns.
    My definition of a single action striker fired gun is one that's only job is to release the hammer and nothing else. I don't want feel the trigger loading up as it arms the mechanism and with the same pull releases the hammer. I'm look for a striker fire that mimics a 1911 operation where the movement of the slide cocks the mechanism and triggers job is to release the cocked mechanism for firing just like a 1911. Can you please recommend some 9mm manufacturers. Thanks
     
  2. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    The following information is from a larger collection that was gathered from several discussions on other forums, including the S&W Forum.

    The Springfield XD series of semi-autos are single action -- with the striker fully charged by slide movement as the chamber is loaded. There is no frame-mounted safety, but there is a grip safety. (I have a Springfield XDm in .45 (Competition model) and it's the best-shooting .45s I've owned.

    An XD has a trigger bar that connects directly with the sear. Pulling the trigger pulls the trigger bar forward, which rotates the sear to release the striker... The striker is fully cocked to the rear, when at rest, ready to fire. When you look at the design, the reason for the grip safety is obvious, it directly interfaces with the sear to prevent unwanted movement.​

    The Smith & Wesson M&P is also a true single-action gun, and can be ordered/purchased with a frame-mounted safety.

    The original (1.0) Smith & Wesson M&P uses a rotating sear, but it is not directly connected to the trigger bar. The trigger bar has a piece that is folded over and bent into a curved shape. It is often called the "candy cane" because it looks like one laying on its side. The long tail of the candy cane acts like a ramp.

    The new 2.0 has the trigger bar push a lever, which rotates the sear and those who can compare the two, find the 2.0 version a big improvement over the original (1.0) design.​
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  3. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Staff

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    If it has a hammer it's not striker fired.

    Sounds to me like the pistol you seek has been around since 1908. It's called Pistole' 08 aka Luger.


    Well, technically, the true single action striker made its debut on the `1893 Borchardt, but I don't think anybody'd wanna carry one of those things.
     
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  4. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    I figured he meant "striker" (or, maybe, firing pin/striker) when he wrote hammer...

    (I also figured he wanted something a little newer and less expensive than even a "shooter" Luger.)

    I've had a couple of Lugers, and one was a Soviet-captured 41 Mauser later used by the East German police. Despite a badly corroded barrel (near the chamber), it was one of the most accurate 9mms I've owned. And once I got some new magazines, it was very reliable, too.

    The other Luger was a "bring-back" that was in nearly pristine condition, with an original (numbers matching) magazine, a take-down tool, and holster. I later sold it for a lot more than I paid for it. It was a beauty.
     
  5. Blueridge

    Blueridge Registered Member

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    Per S&W documents, the M&P is a Double Action Striker Fire. The firing pin comes back 60% of the way, and activating the trigger brings it back the other 40% then releases the firing pin to travel forward. That is what the S&W documents advise at least.

    This is for the M&P 45, .40, & 9. I have not read up on the 2.0 models.
     
  6. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    You can't believe everything you read....

    A number of very astute technical folks on the S&W Forum suggest that the S&W (M&P based) striker assembly is charged far more than 60% (which is the % typically cited for Glocks); they feel that the S&W striker assembly is virtually fully charged by slide movement and the trigger, according to them, only releases the striker. You may disagree with their analysis, but it's easy to demonstrate that the M&P-based mechanism is NOT a double-action design.

    By definition, a double action trigger both charges the hammer or striker spring and then releases it. If you pull the trigger of one of the newer S&W "DA" guns, and the primer doesn't ignite, you can pull the trigger a second time, but nothing will happen. The only way to reactivate the trigger is to move the slide a small distance to the rear (which charges the striker spring and allows the trigger to function again). I've seen most of guns like the Glock or the S&W described as "modified double action" but it might be more correct to call them "modified single action." One website calls the M&P and XD designs a "psuedo-SA" design.

    I have an S&W M&P Pro that was upgraded by Speed Shooters Specialties before I traded into it, and it's simply superb. The trigger pull is very light and very short. I know it truly is NOT double action, because it doesn't have a "second strike" capability.

    Some versions of the metal-framed hammer-fired S&W semi-autos (like the 4043 and the 5943 and 5944 models) were called double-action only models by S&W, but they weren't really double-action. You couldn't manually cock their bobbed hammers, and if the hammer drop didn't ignite the primer the trigger was inactive until the slide moved some distance to the rear. Those models (and maybe some others) were, in effect, modified/psuedo double- or single- action guns.​

    S&W's marketing folks could be very creative when advertising their metal-framed semi-autos, and they're apparently still very creative with their newer polymer-framed guns, too!
     
  7. MurphyLong

    MurphyLong sudo Staff Member Lifetime Member Club Subscribed

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    This is why I prefer CZ's.
     
  8. Blueridge

    Blueridge Registered Member

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    I just advised what S&W said the action was on the M&P. Maybe they are incorrect, but the manufacturer SHOULD know how their firearm functions.

    Technically if activating the trigger brings the hammer or firing pin/striker back and then releases it, then that would be double action. There may be more than one definition. If simply releasing the hammer like with a 1911 or Colt Peacemaker is single action, then bringing back a hammer or firing pin/striker and releasing it to travel forward would be double action of some sort.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  9. mikep7m10

    mikep7m10 Registered Member

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    Any of the HK P7xxx series of pistols is true single action striker fired. But they are out of production and some of the most expensive pistols.
     
  10. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Club Subscribed Club Subscribed

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    Maybe S&W and a bunch of other gun makers stretch the truth a little?

    Only IF just the trigger does all that's needed to fire the weapon. But unless the slide is moved (partially charging the striker spring) the trigger can't do it by itself. And, technically, the trigger doing it ALL by itself is what is meant by DOUBLE ACTION. Some folks call this S&W type of action a "modified double action," but it could also be called "modified single-action", too.

    The Glock design isn't called double-action which some consider double action; Glock calls it a Safe Action. But many of the other similar striker-fired guns ARE called double-action. Marketing folks at those firms know that many shooters fear single-action designs and know you can't sell what people are afraid of.

    Put a snap cap in a M&P Pro (or any of the M&P line), from the magazine. Or just do this with an empty gun. Then rack the slide.
    • The striker spring will be charged by chambering the first round or the snap cap -- slide movement does it -- and the gun is now ready to fire.
    • Pull the trigger.
    • Then pull it again, and see if the striker is charged or even partially tensioned.
    I think you'll find that the trigger doesn't work. What I've just described is NOT a double-action trigger by ANY definition I can find of "double action." A second trigger pull only works if the slide moves some distance to the rear.

    The people on the S&W Forum who seem most familiar with S&W functionality say that the striker is virtually 100% charged by slide movement; the trigger only disables the striker/firing pin block and releases the striker. But even if the trigger does more than that, the striker can't be used again until the slide is moved some distance to the rear. That is NOT a double-action trigger. By most standards, that's a Single-Action design (or perhaps a "modified" single action design.)

    What I've just described is a single-action gun marketed as a double-action gun. That was also the case with many of the second and third generation metal-framed S&W hammer-fired guns (and I had a number of those S&Ws over the years.) I had a S&W 4043 for a while, and it was marketed as DAO, but pull the trigger and the trigger doesn't function again until the slide is moved to cock the hammer or the hammer is manually cocked. (With some models with bobbed hammers, you can't easily cock the hammer manually.)

    Glocks (and many other striker-fired guns) are similar to the M&P line, except that with most of those guns the trigger plays bigger role in charging the striker spring before releasing the striker. But even though trigger movement plays a bigger role, that greater role is not enough to give such guns a second-striker capability.

    Walther made guns that are striker fired that can be started from a cocked striker, or from an uncocked striker (DA or SA) and once cocked the striker can be decocked manually. These Walthers are true DA/SA striker fired guns. The Walther 99 had that capability, as did some versions of the similar S&W Model 99, which was based on the Walther design.) I think some of the newer Walther models can be had with this type of functionality.​
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  11. PLS4541

    PLS4541 Registered Member

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    This is why I prefer CZ's.

    amen dude!
     
  12. carolina sorillo

    carolina sorillo Registered Member

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    FNX!!

    No it ain't a striker fired gun but, if you want a single action ie. 1911-ish trigger then right now, you don't want no striker fired gun, they ain't there yet.

    I always have to laugh when someone talks about how good the trigger is on a plastic gun!! I started off with SA revolvers then 1911's. They both will spoil you for a really good trigger pull. The ONLY plastic gun I've ever bought was the FNX45. I have traded for a Glock but that was only because I knew it would be easier to sell that what I had!

    I really liked the FNX45 and if my occupation required that have a sidearm, I'd still have it. Unfortunately, it was waaay too big to conceal. It has all the controls of a 1911 and they're located in the right places too. But it also has the double strike capability of being SA/DA. They do make an FNX9. I've never held one but I assume it's a bit smaller than the 45 version.

    Good luck in your search,
    CS
     
  13. Ben W.

    Ben W. Registered Member

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    I don't know what you want to call it, but I recently picked up a Canik TP9SFx, and it has the best trigger out of the box of any of the polymer guns I've tried. And with just a little work, I find the trigger to be outstanding for one of these types of guns. If you haven't already, I suggest a trip to the LGS and try one for yourself. Properly set up I find it very similar to a 1911 style trigger.
     
  14. Headspace

    Headspace Registered Member

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    In terms of feel and the sequence of action, I see no difference between SA hammer-fired, or a striker-fired pistol. If it's trigger creep you don't like, get a gunsmith to work on it, or buy a better pistol.

    SA hammer fired: 1-with slide in battery, insert full magazine.
    2-cock the pistol--pull slide to the rear and release. Round chambers, slide returns to battery, hammer is back, pistol is cocked and ready.

    1- with slide locked to rear, insert full magazine
    2-release slide, round chambers, slide returns to battery, hammer is back, cocked and ready

    Striker-fired: 1- with slide in battery, insert full magazine.
    2-cock the pistol--pull slide to the rear and release. Round chambers, slide returns to battery, striker is cocked, pistol is ready

    1-with slide locked to rear, insert full magazine
    2-release slide, round chambers, slide returns to battery, striker is cocked, pistol is ready.

    In either case, the slide has to move fully to the rear once fired, to chamber another round, regardless of how far is has to go to rest the trigger (striker fired)) or cock the hammer (hammer fired).


    Carrying a 1911 cocked and locked is functionally no different than carrying any striker-fired pistol chambered with the thumb safety (if equipped) engaged. This is considering you are gripping the pistol, so ignore the grip safety on the 1911 for now.

    Carrying a Glock with a round chambered is functionally no different than carrying a 1911 chambered with the thumb safety off. This is also considering you are gripping the pistol, so ignore the grip safety on the 1911.

    If you have a DA/SA pistol, the only time it fires DA is on the first pull, if you already have a round chambered. I'd almost rather have a striker-fired pistol than a DA/SA hammer-fired one. And just forget DAO altogether.

    I've fired 1911's and SAO hammer-fired pistols (own 4), DA/SA hammer-fired pistols (owned 2) striker-fired pistols (owned 3) . None of them had the same, crisp SA trigger release that a good revolver has when firing SA, although the 1911's are closer than the rest.
     
  15. Ben W.

    Ben W. Registered Member

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    "Carrying a Glock with a round chambered is functionally no different than carrying a 1911 chambered with the thumb safety off. This is also considering you are gripping the pistol, so ignore the grip safety on the 1911."

    Disagree with you on this.. the Glock is essentially "uncocked" with a round chambered; it's much more like a DA-SA pistol without a manual safety. Pulling the trigger on a Glock is essentially cocking the piece, as that action moves the striker to the rear and into a position where it can be released. That rearward movement of the action bar on the Glock also disengages the firing pin block, which the Series 70 1911's don't have.

    I do agree with you that a well set-up 1911 trigger and a quality DA revolver fired SA (Colt, Smith, etc) have the best trigger pulls.
     
  16. Headspace

    Headspace Registered Member

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    The Glock may technically be "uncocked" with a round chambered, however, there is NOTHING short of keeping your finger off the trigger to prevent it from firing, which is the same situation with the 1911 in C1 with the safety off. If the Glock is behaving like a DA at the time, it's an insanely short DA trigger pull.
     
  17. Ben W.

    Ben W. Registered Member

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    Well, I'm not going to argue with you, but millions of military, police and private owners have found them safe enough, including myself. I had my reservations myself until I attended the Glock Armorers Course in Smyrna a while back. If you don't like Glocks, don't buy one. It's as simple as that, right? All the best to you, friend.
     
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  18. Headspace

    Headspace Registered Member

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    Didn't say they (Glock) were unsafe. They're no more or less safe than any other handgun if you aren't familiar with how they operate. I had a G20 ever since they were released in 1992 and am very familiar with them; mine was a good shooter (don't think there's been a Glock that wasn't), I just never warmed up to them and sold it a couple months ago. Replaced it with a 1911 in the same caliber.
     

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