Ok, I will take a stab at this. The XM193 is a ball type round and the XM855 penetrating round. I'd say SHTF got with XM855. I'm no ammo expert by any means. Just my .02€ worth......

 

That money would probably be better spent on some quality training rather than stash ammo right now.

 

I am assuming that whatever ammo will feed that mossberg tactical lever gun :8:

As much as I hear about it or read about it... the s**t must be getting real close to hitting that fan.

 

That money would probably be better spent on some quality training rather than stash ammo right now.

He could always train with the 20 rounds and stash the other 400 :001_smile:

 

Since the ammo is plentiful and cheap right now. I will be buying now.

My intention is to get while the getting is good. The rifles were a steal on black friday and mags from brownells. The USGI cans are everywhere, but that can change overnight.

I have 1000's of Wolf, Tula and some Fed bulk that I use for 3 gun. I am wanting good stuff for when it really matters.

The Green tipped XM855 is what I am considering but are unsure if there is a difference in accuracy in a 1/9 16" barrel. I have never used any.


Wahoo,
Right now, the only training I am getting is from IDPA, 3 Gun, CAS and self taught long range target. I would consider some professional defensive classes but I have a knee that is preventing that.

 

He could always train with the 20 rounds and stash the other 400 :001_smile:

Nah, I would have to cut off the really neat LC Seal.

 

I am assuming that whatever ammo will feed that mossberg tactical lever gun :8:

As much as I hear about it or read about it... the s**t must be getting real close to hitting that fan.

I agree...sure smells bad and is blowing our way. Gotta be real close to the fan.
..and the Mossberg contraption...WTH??? I can't wait t see someone with that.

 

I agree...sure smells bad and is blowing our way. Gotta be real close to the fan.
..and the Mossberg contraption...WTH??? I can't wait t see someone with that.

It was from another thread. I was referencing the new "tactical" lever gun that mossberg is apparently releasing. It's not that I disagree with stocking up ammo. I try to stock up as much as possible. I just really hate the term "shtf". It seems like everyone and their mother thinks something really awful is going to happen within the next week. This has been going on for the past ten years or so. I just wonder whatever happened to being optimistic.

And seriously, check out the thread about the "tactical" mossberg. I'm warning you... you may lose your face. It's pretty bad.

 

I use SHTF so people know the intent is for a really bad day.
This ammo will never be used for sporting as the extra AR's may never get used either... Just in case surplus to protect and defend.


And that ridiculous looking mossberg thing... probably very dependable, but to be completely tactical, all it lacks is a bayonet lug.

 

US Mil-Spec M193.

 

M193 frags farther out, is cheaper and is almost always a better choice. Go to the Ammo Oracle and read up.

 

M193 frags farther out, is cheaper and is almost always a better choice. Go to the Ammo Oracle and read up.

Nice read, thanks for the link!!!

 

I prefer M855 due to my familiarity with it, it's range, and accuracy compared to M193. Everybody likes to talk smack on the M855, saying it loses in stopping power, forgetting that M193 had the same exact problems during Vietnam.

Ideally, I'd say go find yourself some Mk 318 Mod 0, but for the cheaper rounds, M855 is the way to go.

 

I always stagger stack M193/M855. That way I have the best of both worlds and accuracy to 300 is just about the same. I also keep mags of 69gr match and MK318 open tip penetrator. I just use different color paint dots on the bottom of the mags to identify the ammo. The LWRC and POF don't seem to care what ammo you shoot to 300. They both are damn accurate.

 

Astorbilt,
What is your desired effect and on what target? Allow me to ask another question. If you were shooting a deer with an AR at 100 yards what bullet would you use? M193 or M855. I would guess neither...I would choose a good 62-64gr bonded bullet like the Federal Fusion or TBBC, Winchester SP or the like. Remember we do not have to follow G-conv or NATO rules. Sure you can buy the previous cheaper, but more does not make better. Just food for thought. I'm not looking for suppressive fire, I'm looking for target effects. JMO

 

Able 5,
You make very good sense. We're on the same page.
I was once told not to spend $$ on AR's to stash. It was suggested with my varminter .22-250, I could easily acquire an M16 should the need arise.

Thanks for all the input.

 

M193 frags farther out, is cheaper and is almost always a better choice. Go to the Ammo Oracle and read up.

Thanks... After reading the very in depth comparison of the M193/M855, I will be buying the 840 round cans of M193 on strippers in bandoleers for the 16" rifles. The one HB 20" is getting a can of M855.

Done!

 

Note that US Mil-Spec M193, ala LC, Winchester 3131A, IMI and I assume the Federal is hotter than other loadings. This is covered in the Ammo Oracle link as well.

BTW, Personally, I've always believed that the "problems" with M855's have mostly to do with a combination of the bullet construction in conjunction with the M4's short 14" barrels reducing the effective velocity of the rounds. 16" is the minimum barrel length to maintain the bullet velocity threshold for bullet performance at any usuable range.

 

Great thread, I learned a lot. I was under the impression that there are new heavier bullets designed to caused yaw and fragmentation at lower velocities that would extend the effective range of the M4. If so, why is the military continuing to issue XM193 and M855?

 

Thanks... After reading the very in depth comparison of the M193/M855, I will be buying the 840 round cans of M193 on strippers in bandoleers for the 16" rifles.
Done!

mind sharing where you are finding the 840 rnd cans of m193? And a price?

 

Great thread, I learned a lot. I was under the impression that there are new heavier bullets designed to caused yaw and fragmentation at lower velocities that would extend the effective range of the M4. If so, why is the military continuing to issue XM193 and M855?

First of all, the US Military, to the best of my knowledge, no longer uses M193 at all. For the most part, M855 "green tip" is the standard round, but other rounds are in use. The Army recently rolled out the M855A1, a radically different penetrator, and is using it in Afghanistan. No reports as to its effectiveness yet. The Marines also have another round, the Mk 318 Mod 0, a "barrier blind" round. Reports from the 'stan are that it's hot ****, and I'm in the process of stocking up on it. Along with these 62-grain rounds, there are heavier loadings in 70 grain (no clue as to the designation, only that the really, really cool guys use it), and Mk 262 Mod 0/Mod 1, a precession round used by some designated marksmen, and SF.

 

mind sharing where you are finding the 840 rnd cans of m193? And a price?

Ch

 

First of all, the US Military, to the best of my knowledge, no longer uses M193 at all. For the most part, M855 "green tip" is the standard round, but other rounds are in use. The Army recently rolled out the M855A1, a radically different penetrator, and is using it in Afghanistan. No reports as to its effectiveness yet. The Marines also have another round, the Mk 318 Mod 0, a "barrier blind" round. Reports from the 'stan are that it's hot ****, and I'm in the process of stocking up on it. Along with these 62-grain rounds, there are heavier loadings in 70 grain (no clue as to the designation, only that the really, really cool guys use it), and Mk 262 Mod 0/Mod 1, a precession round used by some designated marksmen, and SF.

D

 

I would suggest matching the barrel rate of twist to the round. Heavier 62gr with 1:7 and lighter 55gr with 1:9 and greater. I believe accuracy could be slightly improved. Am I wrong? Just a thought.

 

M193 according to Molon's testing on ARF shows that it groups better overall in 1/7 barrels. I have only 1/7 barrels and 55 grain is all I use. I don't think it is anything to get all worked up about. M193 is for killing people. People are big enough to easily hit with irons within the frag threshold of 193 or 855. If you are shooting for great groups, you don't want to use military spec ammo, you want match.

In a 16 inch barrel, M193 will give you more frag range and will frag more consistently than M855. If you want the best anti-personnel, buy 70+ grain OTM. Have plenty of cash ready :drool: