Has anyone ever converted a scope will MOA Turrets to MIL Turrets? I have found conversion kits for some scopes which are simply new decals for the Turrets, but the scopes they cover are limited.
JamesLFlowers
Custom turrets are out there for most of the higher end scopes. I know Sightron will swap in custom turrets for about $150 or so.
http://kentonindustries.com/category/custom-turrets is another option...
You can have turrets built to your load data as well using Kenton and a few other places. If you're shooting known distances it's pretty nice to just dial to 300yards and know it's going to work with your hand loads.
http://kentonindustries.com/category/custom-turrets is another option...
You can have turrets built to your load data as well using Kenton and a few other places. If you're shooting known distances it's pretty nice to just dial to 300yards and know it's going to work with your hand loads.
The scope I have comes in both MOA and MIL turret versions. I wonder if its just a swap.... Hmmm, time to call Customer Service.
No you cannot convert a moa to mil adjustment or vice a versa. You can out new knobs on but the clicks will always be whatever they were from the manf. The adjustment is controlled by the gears and screws inside the scope not the markings on the turret.
What scope are you looking at? Might help with suggestions. As I mentioned, many manufacturers offer custom turrets
actually it's rather worthless advice since I have a scope sitting on the table that I am trying to see if I can make use of or just out now replace
I have a Millett TRS but ots the MIL teticle with MOA yurrets
I am trying to see if it's salvageable or simply needs to be replaced
Guys, sorry if I came off as a bit of an arse, I was sitting in a 3hr traffic jam due to the main bridge in Charlestown being closed, typing on my phone
The but MIL/MIL and buy Vortex advice really was worthless to me here. I have a Millett TRS scope that it MIL/MOA sitting on the workbench and I was looking for ways to salvage it if possible. If its not possible then I will have to buy a new scope for my mid-range gun, likely a Vortex or Bushnell but most assuredly MIL/MIL.
The but MIL/MIL and buy Vortex advice really was worthless to me here. I have a Millett TRS scope that it MIL/MOA sitting on the workbench and I was looking for ways to salvage it if possible. If its not possible then I will have to buy a new scope for my mid-range gun, likely a Vortex or Bushnell but most assuredly MIL/MIL.
Its easy 3.5moa = 1mil
Reality is 3.438
But anyhow, .5mil = 1.75moa
And so on it goes. Granted its not a 1 to 1 conversion but under 600yds who cares. Secondly the idea of converting moa diled data to mil holds is easy
Moa / 3.438 = mil
I have a article on this topic.
http://www.tracearmory.com/target-engagement-and-the-milrad.html
Back in the day the moa-mil mix up optics never slowed down most shooters. The mil-mil drive for matching optics was 100% driven by Europe sales of optics here in the US.
Anyhow, you can do a blended set up.
Let me know if this helps.
Reality is 3.438
But anyhow, .5mil = 1.75moa
And so on it goes. Granted its not a 1 to 1 conversion but under 600yds who cares. Secondly the idea of converting moa diled data to mil holds is easy
Moa / 3.438 = mil
I have a article on this topic.
http://www.tracearmory.com/target-engagement-and-the-milrad.html
Back in the day the moa-mil mix up optics never slowed down most shooters. The mil-mil drive for matching optics was 100% driven by Europe sales of optics here in the US.
Anyhow, you can do a blended set up.
Let me know if this helps.
I just read the above posts.
Guys quit posting B.S. people have skinned this cat many ways. A mix optic is not the anti-christ.
Hell, do me a soild, someone explain the diffrence of adjustment in inches between the 1/3rd MOA of the ACOG and a .1mil 2.5-10x32mm Vortex at 500yds.
Thanks
Guys quit posting B.S. people have skinned this cat many ways. A mix optic is not the anti-christ.
Hell, do me a soild, someone explain the diffrence of adjustment in inches between the 1/3rd MOA of the ACOG and a .1mil 2.5-10x32mm Vortex at 500yds.
Thanks
Lol true.
But its a technique to learn how and the why.
Guys, moa-moa and mil-mil work. But so does a mixed optic.
But its a technique to learn how and the why.
Guys, moa-moa and mil-mil work. But so does a mixed optic.
A good Sergeant Major once told me, "Just because we do it one way or have done it like that for years doesn't mean its the best way" and that's right. You can look at the field of competitors from across the country, look at the new offerings of scopes out there from vendors. Hell, the entire argument is invalid with a FFP or fixed power scope and matching reticle/turrets.... just use whatever your scope tells you... boom. The only confusion you have then is if you're in MOA and the spotter is milradian. (most spotting scopes are Mil... there are a few w/ moa reticles) Besides a mismatched system for UKD is crap if you're not stellar at ranging.... ooh I'm 1.3 mils low, let me add.... hmmm.... 3.46 x 1.3 (in my head... on the fly).... about a fat 4.75 moa is what I wold call it on the fly without using a calculator... boom... missed elevation (actually 4.4x moa) and lost the wind call.
Anyway, To change the actual clicks to match up you'd have to swap out internal erector screw and windage screw. This can be done on most high end scopes, but the fact is a company like Millet most likely doesn't have them for that model. If they do it would most certainly not be financially beneficial on a scope of that caliber.
As others have stated you can get custom turrets for custom loads and all kinds of custom janky caps made, but at the end of the day it still has 1/4 moa value to the adjustment, period. (or whatever value adjustment it has).
If you want to talk more about the pros and cons privately please feel free to PM me. Hell, even the ferocious midget @DrDover can give sound advice and he's right next door to you. I have plenty of scopes if you want to come look through some, especially the vortex if you're considering that an upgrade option.
By the way, the difference is approx 0.055 inches, which could mean the difference in a hit or a miss
Anyway, To change the actual clicks to match up you'd have to swap out internal erector screw and windage screw. This can be done on most high end scopes, but the fact is a company like Millet most likely doesn't have them for that model. If they do it would most certainly not be financially beneficial on a scope of that caliber.
As others have stated you can get custom turrets for custom loads and all kinds of custom janky caps made, but at the end of the day it still has 1/4 moa value to the adjustment, period. (or whatever value adjustment it has).
If you want to talk more about the pros and cons privately please feel free to PM me. Hell, even the ferocious midget @DrDover can give sound advice and he's right next door to you. I have plenty of scopes if you want to come look through some, especially the vortex if you're considering that an upgrade option.
By the way, the difference is approx 0.055 inches, which could mean the difference in a hit or a miss
The B.S. part is telling this person that he needs to spend more money on equipment when the equipment he has will do the job in the context of the question asked.
The confusion part of a mixed optic is not the optic but the lack of training on the user. I agree that a same unit of measure optic is best, but to say a mixed optic needs to be replaced is just not true. So that is B.S.
John
The confusion part of a mixed optic is not the optic but the lack of training on the user. I agree that a same unit of measure optic is best, but to say a mixed optic needs to be replaced is just not true. So that is B.S.
John
Boyette, I know that MOA/MIL can and will work. No need for you and Dr Dover to get into a snarl fest about it.
But my primary is MIL/MIL and that is one additional confusion that I don't want to deal with. So I was simply looking for thoughts on conversions. Seems that even switching knobs with the MIL/MIL version wouldn't really get me more than approximates... not good for Precision Rifle.
Since there is not an easy way to change the scope, I am going to choose to sale it and buy a MIL/MIL scope to replace it on my backup rifle.
Thanks everyone for the advice and opinions.
But my primary is MIL/MIL and that is one additional confusion that I don't want to deal with. So I was simply looking for thoughts on conversions. Seems that even switching knobs with the MIL/MIL version wouldn't really get me more than approximates... not good for Precision Rifle.
Since there is not an easy way to change the scope, I am going to choose to sale it and buy a MIL/MIL scope to replace it on my backup rifle.
Thanks everyone for the advice and opinions.
Actually, my post is exactly true. It doesn't refer to MOA/MIL scope, it refers to what would one would have with a less than absolute conversion, a scope where dialing 9 clicks wouldn't be .9MIL at all but 2.5 MOA labeled as something approximately close.
Sir,
That's the point I am making. If you would take masking tape and cover over your knobs and do this.
Mark 0.0
Every 3 clicks mark .2 Mil
The difference at 100yds is
.72inch = .2 Mil
.78inch = 3/4 MOA
Stacking the .06 of a inch out to 20MOA or 5.8 Mil = 1.2" of loss @ 100yds
So once again under 600yds who cares.... I mean follow what I am saying or not.. I only have taught this course for over 14 years around the world and have had the span of students from civilians to not currently civilians wearing OD green to coyote and helped design optics, reticles and stuff like that.
John
That's the point I am making. If you would take masking tape and cover over your knobs and do this.
Mark 0.0
Every 3 clicks mark .2 Mil
The difference at 100yds is
.72inch = .2 Mil
.78inch = 3/4 MOA
Stacking the .06 of a inch out to 20MOA or 5.8 Mil = 1.2" of loss @ 100yds
So once again under 600yds who cares.... I mean follow what I am saying or not.. I only have taught this course for over 14 years around the world and have had the span of students from civilians to not currently civilians wearing OD green to coyote and helped design optics, reticles and stuff like that.
John
Mil/Mil all the way.
The issue with MOA/MOA is the reticle spacing is too fine and very hard to get a reticle to work as needed. The Mil/Mil is more course and only breaks down to .1 at the fine aspects. You can get .05 but that is also the lowest level of resolution the human eye and see under optics so that's the limit. FYI .05 is equal to .1719MOA and that is almost a 1/8th MOA adjustment.
Again, this is the main issue with MOA reticles. Having a .25MOA stadia spacing is a nightmare. Done it, built it, does not work.
Edit to add, the issue is a three fold problem.
1. FOV of the optic design
2. The unit of measure and the sub-values used
3. The precision of the machining
With the US Optics 3.2-17 in the MLR MOA reticle we had to reduce the FOV by 30% to make the reticle useful across the whole power range. This is the key to a FFP quality built scopes.
Please think that the perceived reticle size is in relation to the magnification buts its not, its directly to the FOV of the optic.
That's the struggle.
The issue with MOA/MOA is the reticle spacing is too fine and very hard to get a reticle to work as needed. The Mil/Mil is more course and only breaks down to .1 at the fine aspects. You can get .05 but that is also the lowest level of resolution the human eye and see under optics so that's the limit. FYI .05 is equal to .1719MOA and that is almost a 1/8th MOA adjustment.
Again, this is the main issue with MOA reticles. Having a .25MOA stadia spacing is a nightmare. Done it, built it, does not work.
Edit to add, the issue is a three fold problem.
1. FOV of the optic design
2. The unit of measure and the sub-values used
3. The precision of the machining
With the US Optics 3.2-17 in the MLR MOA reticle we had to reduce the FOV by 30% to make the reticle useful across the whole power range. This is the key to a FFP quality built scopes.
Please think that the perceived reticle size is in relation to the magnification buts its not, its directly to the FOV of the optic.
That's the struggle.
I've ran a mil/moa scope for several competitions.
I've found that depending on the level of time stress in the competition, you either hold or your dial, but you don't do both. If it's a slower paced shoot, use your moa dope and dial the scope. Holdover the reticle for follow up shot corrections. If it's a quick shoot like Woody's, just holdover. It's not that hard.
I've found that depending on the level of time stress in the competition, you either hold or your dial, but you don't do both. If it's a slower paced shoot, use your moa dope and dial the scope. Holdover the reticle for follow up shot corrections. If it's a quick shoot like Woody's, just holdover. It's not that hard.
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