I always thought it was an oxymoron. Yeah, there's junk and quality but they're basically milspec.

I will say that all of mine shoot as expected or better. So I win! Yeah, no help from me...

-R

 

My highest end is a 800.00 government 20" therefore I guess I fall in the trailer trash "black gun" category. If they only knew I also have a DPMS Oracle I would likely be banned from assorted forums. I find my two ARs to be excellent for whatever I have designated their intended purpose to be which I'm not quite sure of yet. Regarding PSA, I'm seeing as many owner-posted negatives, perhaps more, on their products. Pertaining to any product, one thing that drives me nuts is to see these "internet intellectuals" bash something yet have no first hand experience with it.

 

I think my Daniel Defense was worth all the pretty pennies that I paid. It isn't anything special but it works.

 

The way I look at it, high end ARs are those that cost $3000 plus. Then there is middle tier which almost every factory built AR falls into, despite their price differences, and then there are junk builds. As far as I am concerned, a build is a build and they all fall in the same category. The "nobody else wants your shit" category. Especially in this day of $500 factory ARs.

 

The "nobody else wants your shit" category.

You're just jealous.

 

Barnes Precision is a good one. I would consider it higher end. They are very well built, and accurate, but heavy. Daniel defense and BCM are other decent brands in similar tiers.



Colt in my opinion is a good mid range gun that is priced at the high end. The prancing pony tax can be quite high.

dollar to value ratio for people starting out, it is hard to beat the Smith Wesson Sport 2. The Ruger 556 isn't bad either, but the bolt is kinda crap. I mean it works, but still.

 

I believe based on where the AR industry is today, "high end" means sexy for some folks. The custom crazy colors and billet etc. I believe Noveske, BCM, Colt, Spikes, DD, and several others make great guns. For what you can get a BCM, Colt, or Spikes for, the only other premium is, in my opinion, aesthetics or a piston system. PWS, LWRC, LMT, and a few other of the piston guns are a step up but really, unless you are shooting surpressed or full auto, not a huge improvement.

 

Noveske, LMT, Knights Armament are what I'd consider "high-end" ARs. Next you have your Daniel Defense, BCM, Colt tier, with Spike's Aero Precision, PSA occupying the next and the likes of DPMS, M&P Sports, Bushmaster at the lower end.

All of that is completely in my head though. There's absolutely nothing wrong with an M&P Sport, and I'd venture to say it would be as reliable as any "high-end" AR out there. For me, I've settled on that 2nd tier, specifically Colts. My Colts aren't pretty, but they work every time, are of good quality and hold their value unlike any other brand. I see the AR tiers sort of like the tiers of 1911 manufacturers, where in my opinion the sweet spot for a good, working 1911 is $800-1400 or so. Anything above that, from my perspective, you start to get into the world of diminishing returns.

An $800 Colt is going to work just as well as a $2000 KAC gun; the Colt, however, may have a few scratches and less fancy d00-dads to bolt on. And I for one don't feel bad at all about feeding a Colt steel-case ammo or I don't mind if my Colts get scratches/dings from honest use. I think I'd be hesitant to do that to a gun that costs more than my monthly mortgage payment.....

 

 

Barnes precision machine.
Research this rifle and you'll be a owner

 

I have this LMT upper I plan on putting on top of a PSA lower...the horror!!!
I was going to try to get a LMT lower but they are pretty elusive and if you can find one they are ridiculously priced

 

To answer your question: PSA and Spikes are low end typically. High end doesn't mean TDP. The only true milspec rifles follow the TDP. What metal is used? What is it treated with? Finish? Tolerances? There are actually few AR manufacturers that follow the TDP. Colt, LMT, BCM, Daniel defense, newer FN come to mind. I choose to own these simply because I think my life and the lives of those I love are worth the extra few hundred dollars each. I want every advantage I can get and having to skip going out to eat for a month is a small price to pay for that in my opinion.

To clarify, I'm not bashing the cheaper rifles, but you do get what you pay for and for someone that puts down a high round count a year (higher than 5,000 which is probably 100 times what most AR owners put down range) it is very worth it. If you are a casual shooter that plinks around a few times a year, drive on with your DPMS or PSA.

PS: Barnes makes a great rifle.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

I was thinking of LaRue Tactical when you said high end. Pure machines!!!!

 

I have a unfired Armalite SPR mod1. I was considering selling it then I looked up the prices on them. MSRP was around $1500 and there are none to be found. Anyone know anything about these? Why so damn high?

 

You have to look at the time frame these were last sold (when all ARs were high) which is why they seem so high. I believe armalite has discontinued the line? Which is probably why you cannot find any. I'm not that familiar with the model, but I'd say it is now worth about what someone will pay for it, which would be about the same for any other midline AR. Right now, it's a buyers market. Heavily a buyers market.

 

Had I not just bought my PWS Mk1 Mod 2, I would absolutely be picking up one of the closeout LWRC DI carbines right now. They must have done a new iteration for 2017 that includes an MLok rail, because all of the first gens that are LWRC's proprietary rail are DIRT CHEAP. Like the black one for $1,000 and bronce for like $1,150. It includes the AFG too, but no iron sites:
Black: https://www.802traders.com/product-p/z-gicdir5b16.htm
Bronze: https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...php/cPath/2084_36_904/products_id/719014911/LWRC+DI+RIFLE+556NATO+16.1+MODU+BRZ

 

Any comments on Rock River AR-15's? I have 2 of them. No problems with either of them. Also have a Bushmaster AR-15; 10 years old and never taken out of the box. And finally, an Armalite AR-10, never been fired.

I didn't know Stag was still making lefties. I shoot everything lefty whether it was meant to be or not.

 

I have a RRA rifle and a pistol with Aimpoints on both. I don't shoot thousands of rounds but they both have performed flawlessly using Georgia Arms 55g FMJ ammo. I ain't going to win any precision target competitions but feel very comfortable with torso sized targets out to around 200+ yards with the rifle. The pistol is a 10 1/2" barrel and does quite well at 100 yards.

 

Wilson combat makes elite ARs for under $3000.

 

When I think of "high end" ARs, I think the term mostly comes down to cost. If the cost of the completed rifle is around $1,500 and up (without optics) then I think you have a "high end" AR-15. That idea is slowly leaving my mind though, as I have an AR that cost me around 800-900 (PSA) and it shoots basically as good as my BCM AR. Yes, I will take the BCM rifle in a heart beat because I have poured more money into it and believe it is a superior weapon, but if it came down to me, the PSA AR, and facing a threat, I would not be worried about my rifle. (If that makes any sort of sense haha)

 

Hodge Defense and Knights are at the top of my list.

Middle of the road and duty ready
SOLGW
BCM
FN
S&W magpul (not sport)
Colt

 

Hodge Defense and Knights are at the top of my list.

Middle of the road and duty ready
SOLGW
BCM
FN
S&W magpul (not sport)
Colt

You forgot LMT, Daniel Defense, and Midwest Industries

 

Patriot Ordnance Factory.
-drops mike, wins at life

 

Patriot Ordnance Factory.
-drops mike, wins at life

Meh.. seen enough fail to not trust them. Stopped carrying them at the shop I used to work at because they were so unreliable. POF didn't even try to help. Might be better now since that was a few years ago, but I'll never own one. Ever.

 

Yeah, initially they were spotty,
Then they grew up.
They are pretty much indestructible now,
I have several and prefer them over my own LWRC's

 

You forgot LMT, Daniel Defense, and Midwest Industries

LMT and DD yes as well as PWS for long stroke piston guns. Midwest eh. And I'd add Radian to my list too.

 

Considering midwest basically makes BCM's guns, I'd say they are on point. Just not as popular.

 

So MI uses mostly BCM (mid grade) parts and they’re “high end”? Yes. Midwest and BCM rails are definitely not high end.

 

So MI uses mostly BCM (mid grade) parts and they're "high end"? Yes. Midwest and BCM rails are definitely not high end.

So I'll stop trying to explain that MIDWEST makes bcm stuff... still haven't answered what's wrong with midwest handguards and now I'll add BCM.

 

both Midwest and BCM rails have a lot of flex and the BCM one isn’t durable at all.

 

both Midwest and BCM rails have a lot of flex and the BCM one isn't durable at all.

Which bcm HANDGUARD? The early keymod HANDGUARD or the later one? I've used both the midwest and bcm HANDGUARDS... wouldn't you know it: neither had anymore more flex that any other free float HANDGUARD. What HANDGUARD are you comparing it to?

 

Damn bro. You can say rail. It’s ok. But if you don’t want to that’s cool I will. I’m referring to the BCM KEY MOD RAIL. You know. What KMR stands for. Or the MCMRail.

 

There is an old business adage that states: "if two managers think alike, one of them is not needed". It gives us permission to disagree with each other, yet move on, for the betterment of the issue.

The issue here, as posted by the OP is: What defines a "high end" AR?

This has been a very informative thread and I can't believe it got derailed over nomenclature.

Hopefully, we can get it back on track, otherwise, I'll be forced to delete it.

I agree.
High end AR:
-Patriot Ordnance Factory
-LWRC
These are both tier one