its mostly the threads you join in.

 

Time for soda and popcorn.

 

I DONT HAVE TO TAKE THIS FROM YOU, I DONT LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!

who knows, i think everyone is getting more comfortable with eachother and feel they can say more:7:

 

Trolling is considered "debating" by a lot of people here. Of course people are going to argue.


CHRIS

 

Great guess, I would say that have done it. Stupid Economy!

 

Is it just me or does it seem like more and more threads instantly turn into arguments with personal attacks?

I almost started this same thread after your realtor rant.

 

or what

m49

 

Some people are so unhappy they want to drag you down to their level. Personally I just ignore them. Matters fact this forum could use an ignore feature.

 

Is it just me or does it seem like more and more threads instantly turn into arguments with personal attacks?

Really? YOU posted this question.....really?

 

Really? YOU posted this question.....really?

My realtor thread was a reaction to years of repeated behavior by several people and the observations of dozens of others that appeared to be identical.

It appeared that none of the issues I had were addressed and the only responses were "You are correct", "You are a bigot" and "Screw you!", none of which reflected anything I said but were merely an opinion of me, personally.

So, yes, me really. That thread is a perfect example. Instead of "Your suppositions are incorrect and your sample group is too small and skewed by geographic isolation and here is why..." I got "WTF U CALLIN ME LAZY???? OMFG UR LAZY AND DONT NO WAT ITS LIKE!!!!"

 

I just went back and looked at the opening statement in the Realtor thread. Seemed to me that they had the effects of a ball peen hammer being used to crack eggs. I don't agree that it's the economy or political situations for rants, but maybe it would help to take a step back and reread a post before the enter button gets stomped on.

 

My realtor thread was a reaction to years of repeated behavior by several people and the observations of dozens of others that appeared to be identical.

It appeared that none of the issues I had were addressed and the only responses were "You are correct", "You are a bigot" and "Screw you!", none of which reflected anything I said but were merely an opinion of me, personally.

So, yes, me really. That thread is a perfect example. Instead of "Your suppositions are incorrect and your sample group is too small and skewed by geographic isolation and here is why..." I got "WTF U CALLIN ME LAZY???? OMFG UR LAZY AND DONT NO WAT ITS LIKE!!!!"

If your thread was from "years of repeated behavior by several people"...then why do you keep using the same Realtors who are providing those same results? That in of itself is not smart...I know if I get bad service somewhere I go somewhere else. If I get bad service at JCPenny in the clothing department, I go to another clothing store...I don't stop wearing clothes and bash the people who sell them....geez...

You never got that from me, I simply tried to explain and offer you suggestions to what your issue was.

You know, I could bash your occupation as well, but I am smart enough to know that not every military member is the shortfall of the few. No, I have never been in the military BUT I did grow up right here at good ole Ft. Bragg so I have seen a lot of military over the years. There are many out there that do a lot of things that make people in this town not like the military....but those are the few, not the majority. There is a difference.

As for your point of view, you had a bad experience so you bashed the whole industry. You don't know me and you don't know what I do for my clients. Glad not everyone does that or nobody would work with or like anyone else in this world. Want to find out what my clients say about me? Here are some "published as written from them" testimonials....

http://mynewnchome.com/Testimonials

You know what...it's not worth it..your opinions are your opinions....so be it.

 

Some people seem to have a real thin skin around here and take everything personally which just degenerates into an arguement. It's the same on every message forum i have ever been on some people are just looking for an arguement or a chance to feel indignant to pump up their own self esteem.

 

Since I had a lot to say on the other thread about real estate agents,which spun into car salesman (my fault), and I was going to respond one more time on that thread, maybe this is a better place for one last post on the subject.

First, since some here listed their jobs and what they do, I'll briefly tell you about me.PLEASE, do not que the violins or think that this is anything more than an attempt to let some here know how I came to feel the way I do, and to try to explain HOW I attained my way of thinking.
I believe we are all a product of our life experiences and our attitudes, especially in our later years, are formed by what we have seen and done.

Been a toolmaker/moldmaker for 33 years. I have worked in some pretty rough conditions.....high heat, dirt, fumes, standing on concrete floors for 10 to 12 hours a day etc.
I have been cut, burned, had fingers smashed etc.
I have to work with both my mind and hands.....I have to and do have a good knowledge of math.....trig, geometry,etc.
Have to know how to read complex blueprints.
Have to know how to program and have a fair knowledge about computers.
Have to know how to maintain the machines that I operate.
Have to attend "schools" from time to time to keep up to date or to learn about a new piece of equipment.
Have to operate the machines and produce....you are ALWAYS on the timer and always have to work.
My breaks are ALWAYS designated and timed....when the buzzer rings, you better be back at it.
Just a very brief description of what I have done for years.
I have worked VERY long stretches with NO days off----I have worked years with no more than 3 days off ALL YEAR---that is counting ALL holidays etc.....that means, only 3 days in one year was I not in the plant.
I have been in the hospital twice because of stress---thought it was my heart and thank God it wasn't.
I'm not crying here or whinning or looking for a metal or a pat on the back....I made good money and supported my family and educated my children who all have great degrees and are doing VERY well.
So, that's what I do and did.

In the other thread I listed MY EXPERIENCES with both real estate agents and car salesman....like it or not, those were TRULY my experiences.
I don't just look at a person and automatically think they are a sucker....I look at people and think " I don't know him or her, everyone has a story, maybe they have worked harder and had it tougher than me....maybe they have to work VERY hard for their money, and I won't disrespect them by trying any tricks or BS on them, I'll be honest and give that person some respect."
That's what I think....others may not....others may think that is old fashioned and stupid to think that way today.....When the almighty dollar rules all.....sorry, been one way all my life and am to old to change now.

So, when I come to you for a service or to purchase a product, SHOW ME SOME FREAKIN RESPECT and don't treat me like an idiot----realize that I have worked VERY hard for my money and I am DOING YOU a favor by purchasing a car from you our using you to help me by a home.
Don't look at me like a "MARK".
I expect YOU to work as hard as my boss expects ME to work every day... I know, that's pretty stupid too.
Don't lie to me or try to pull tricks on me....don't act like I'm an afterthought.

I used a real estate agent once to sell a house----the house sold in 28 days---she made $9,000.00 for her efforts and didn't "WORK" for 28 days---total "Work" was probably less than 20 hours-----pretty good money right??

Anyway, wanted to say that I apologize if I have offended anyone by what I said... but, what I did do is relate my experiences like them or not.
In all honesty, no one will ever convince me that a real estate agent or car salesman "WORKS" hard.....This is based on what I have seen, heard, experienced in MY life.

If the world ever does "go to pieces" I don't think we'll NEED any car salesman or real estate agents....trades people, engineers, doctors, nurses, farmers. etc, yes.....people that actually provide a service and DO something other than talk.

Peace.

 

If the world ever does "go to pieces" I don't think we'll NEED any car salesman or real estate agents....trades people, engineers, doctors, nurses, farmers. etc, yes.....people that actually provide a service and DO something other than talk.

Geez.....I think the gloves are coming off!

 

Since I had a lot to say on the other thread about real estate agents,which spun into car salesman (my fault), and I was going to respond one more time on that thread, maybe this is a better place for one last post on the subject.

First, since some here listed their jobs and what they do, I'll briefly tell you about me.PLEASE, do not que the violins or think that this is anything more than an attempt to let some here know how I came to feel the way I do, and to try to explain HOW I attained my way of thinking.
I believe we are all a product of our life experiences and our attitudes, especially in our later years, are formed by what we have seen and done.

Been a toolmaker/moldmaker for 33 years. I have worked in some pretty rough conditions.....high heat, dirt, fumes, standing on concrete floors for 10 to 12 hours a day etc.
I have been cut, burned, had fingers smashed etc.
I have to work with both my mind and hands.....I have to and do have a good knowledge of math.....trig, geometry,etc.
Have to know how to read complex blueprints.
Have to know how to program and have a fair knowledge about computers.
Have to know how to maintain the machines that I operate.
Have to attend "schools" from time to time to keep up to date or to learn about a new piece of equipment.
Have to operate the machines and produce....you are ALWAYS on the timer and always have to work.
My breaks are ALWAYS designated and timed....when the buzzer rings, you better be back at it.
Just a very brief description of what I have done for years.
I have worked VERY long stretches with NO days off----I have worked years with no more than 3 days off ALL YEAR---that is counting ALL holidays etc.....that means, only 3 days in one year was I not in the plant.
I have been in the hospital twice because of stress---thought it was my heart and thank God it wasn't.
I'm not crying here or whinning or looking for a metal or a pat on the back....I made good money and supported my family and educated my children who all have great degrees and are doing VERY well.
So, that's what I do and did.

In the other thread I listed MY EXPERIENCES with both real estate agents and car salesman....like it or not, those were TRULY my experiences.
I don't just look at a person and automatically think they are a sucker....I look at people and think " I don't know him or her, everyone has a story, maybe they have worked harder and had it tougher than me....maybe they have to work VERY hard for their money, and I won't disrespect them by trying any tricks or BS on them, I'll be honest and give that person some respect."
That's what I think....others may not....others may think that is old fashioned and stupid to think that way today.....When the almighty dollar rules all.....sorry, been one way all my life and am to old to change now.

So, when I come to you for a service or to purchase a product, SHOW ME SOME FREAKIN RESPECT and don't treat me like an idiot----realize that I have worked VERY hard for my money and I am DOING YOU a favor by purchasing a car from you our using you to help me by a home.
Don't look at me like a "MARK".
I expect YOU to work as hard as my boss expects ME to work every day... I know, that's pretty stupid too.
Don't lie to me or try to pull tricks on me....don't act like I'm an afterthought.

I used a real estate agent once to sell a house----the house sold in 28 days---she made $9,000.00 for her efforts and didn't "WORK" for 28 days---total "Work" was probably less than 20 hours-----pretty good money right??

Anyway, wanted to say that I apologize if I have offended anyone by what I said... but, what I did do is relate my experiences like them or not.
In all honesty, no one will ever convince me that a real estate agent or car salesman "WORKS" hard.....This is based on what I have seen, heard, experienced in MY life.

If the world ever does "go to pieces" I don't think we'll NEED any car salesman or real estate agents....trades people, engineers, doctors, nurses, farmers. etc, yes.....people that actually provide a service and DO something other than talk.

Peace.

I can respect this... a lot. There aren't many people in this world that are willing to work for what they want. The issue i had with your previous post would be something like this for you:

"I knew a machinist that was a real D*&K once, aren't all machinists terrible?"
I honestly dont really care what people think about me or what I do for a living, but the post just came across as naive. Realtors don't "work" in the manual labor sense of things very much, but we are getting ours now. The market is so bad, that I am now in the police academy;Which is what i feel i was meant to do all along.

 

I can respect this... a lot. There aren't many people in this world that are willing to work for what they want. The issue i had with your previous post would be something like this for you:

"I knew a machinist that was a real D*&K once, aren't all machinists terrible?"
I honestly dont really care what people think about me or what I do for a living, but the post just came across as naive. Realtors don't "work" in the manual labor sense of things very much, but we are getting ours now. The market is so bad, that I am now in the police academy;Which is what i feel i was meant to do all along.

Police academy!... now that's lazy

 

Police academy!... now that's lazy

was a great movie

 

If the world ever does "go to pieces" I don't think we'll NEED any car salesman or real estate agents....trades people, engineers, doctors, nurses, farmers. etc, yes.....people that actually provide a service and DO something other than talk.

Peace.

Nuke the terrain and call the consequent deathly stillness "peace?" Nice trick.

I am a newbie and am loath to engage in a tactical strike, but that paragraph above has to be one of the most ignorant pieces of spew I have ever seen. I have done a TON of things in my life, from engineering to contracting to being a floor broker in the futures pits to a chemist to now owning a financial services company.

Have you ever LOOKED at one of those paradise economies where the leaders swallow that kind of tripe? Has it ever occurred to you that only ADVANCED economies produce a merchant class, and that societies that are limited to what you call people who "produce a service" (evidently bringing buyers and sellers together is not a "service"?????) are the most filthy poor places on the planet?

I am sorry if this is a rant, but that whole idea is so ignorant as to be idiotic. The only place I have ever heard it bellowed about was from people who buy the lie (and it is a lie) that wealthy people have "succeeded" more, but won't actually admit that they are pissed off about their station in life and intimidated by people who make more money than they do...., so they denigrate them in a backhanded way.

You see, the whole of western capitalism, the system that has raised more people from poverty and squalor than any other system in history, has this weird idea that sales people SHOULD MAKE MORE IN EVERY field, whether it is in medicine, finance, engineering, construction or whatever. The merchant classes have been valued in (ahem) FREE economies precisely because the societies recognize something, and that is that bringing buyers and sellers together IS A VALUABLE SERVICE. It is only marxists and dyspeptic loons who claim otherwise.

I am done here. Gonna go back to the for sale threads before the mods bounce me out.

 

"I am a newbie and am loath to engage in a tactical strike, but that paragraph above has to be one of the most ignorant pieces of spew I have ever seen. I have done a TON of things in my life, from engineering to contracting to being a floor broker in the futures pits to a chemist to now owning a financial services company."

When you find something you are good at, let us know....you MUST be about 100 years old to have done all that!! LOL!!

"Have you ever LOOKED at one of those paradise economies where the leaders swallow that kind of tripe? Has it ever occurred to you that only ADVANCED economies produce a merchant class, and that societies that are limited to what you call people who "produce a service" (evidently bringing buyers and sellers together is not a "service"?????) are the most filthy poor places on the planet?"

NO, it's not occurred to me, what HAS occurred to me is that the USA has (was, whatever) become a wealthy country BECAUSE of people who DO produce....the "merchant class" as you call them and technically, I don't think that is the correct term to describe what we are talking about, has NOTHING to do with the success of ANY company...The PRODUCT being produced does and not those who sell it.
So, for your way of thinking, YUGO just needed better sales people and not a better product.....please!!.
When a country gets to the point that it is very successful and full of hard working great producing people, THEN they CAN AFFORD to support a "merchant class" that does nothing but take a cut.....kind of like "work" for your welfare.

"I am sorry if this is a rant, but that whole idea is so ignorant as to be idiotic. The only place I have ever heard it bellowed about was from people who buy the lie (and it is a lie) that wealthy people have "succeeded" more, but won't actually admit that they are pissed off about their station in life and intimidated by people who make more money than they do...., so they denigrate them in a backhanded way."

NO, you miss the point entirely in your rant.
I have NOTHING against wealthy people.....doctors give up much of their lives to study and cure the sick....I don't think they get paid enough.
People like Bill Gates who start a huge successful company in his garage...I like him and he gets my vote.
Henry Ford, Ross Perot, people who invent and produce a needed product and become wealthy, all get my vote....you got it twisted.

"You see, the whole of western capitalism, the system that has raised more people from poverty and squalor than any other system in history, has this weird idea that sales people SHOULD MAKE MORE IN EVERY field, whether it is in medicine, finance, engineering, construction or whatever. The merchant classes have been valued in (ahem) FREE economies precisely because the societies recognize something, and that is that bringing buyers and sellers together IS A VALUABLE SERVICE. It is only marxists and dyspeptic loons who claim otherwise."

THAT is not and never has been a definition of capitalism....sales people should make more money in every field, give me a break!!
Sales people, good gawd, you have to be joking......
Like I said, by your way of thinking, all you have to do is produce a product...even an inferior product....but just hire a good sales force. LOL!! Maybe you should start making "buggy whips" and hire a good salesmen.

Nice rant but um, never mind.......

 

For me, I just had surgery and had to sit around the house for 3 weeks while drawing a "light duty" paycheck. Think, 1/8 of normal pay. Glad my wife is good with money. So it comes down to this, since the rest of my life is falling back in place. I need to either....

A. Go fly fishing
B. Kill something.

Dove season opens Sat. I'll play nice next week. Till then, Screw all of you!

 

I've always found that gun owners tend to be quicker at throwing hissy fits from all the forums I've been on. Not all gun owners of course and it is a negative stereotype but like all other stereotypes, it exists because there is a substantial subset of people who fit the bill.

 

Nice rant but um, never mind.......

There is a difference between "either/or" and "both/and." The "magic" of a free economy is that people may do what they wish with the "stuff" they produce or buy. This is the basic difference between a free market and a command economy, so yes, one of the basic TENETS of free market capitalism inevitably produces a merchant class (or sales people). They figure out that they are good at bringing buyers and sellers together and can make more money doing it. You deny it, but it is the case in every advanced economy. I challenge you to find one anywhere on the globe different.

It is, in fact, a successful sales force which provides the very best antidotes to junk produced by those dirt under the fingernails "producers" you talk about. If you look at the history of failed products and services, you will find there is an unending stream in every industry of crap, poory engineered, poorly constructed, shoddy materials and ineffective idiocy that simply fail. A society full of sales people bring a bevy of choices to the consuming public, so that they have the freedom to choose between the various products. When that happens, folks buy Fords instead of buggy whips (to use your illustration.....and Henry Ford would have absolutely scoffed at your idea that a sales force is unnecessary, he hired em by the boatload.

It is true that very good products have a sales engine of their own. For example, Hershey's chocolate for YEARS AND YEARS did absolutely no advertising. Zip. They simply produced a superior product, and their sales force (yawn, yes, they DID hire sales people rather than expect the bars to magically jump on the shelves) were largely order takers.

To be sympathetic to you, I think that is what you are kind of getting at, although you are using a bazooka to shoot a fly. American Capitalism USED to be the idea that if you build/produce a superior product/service, the world will come to you upon discovery. Your sales force existed to introduce the product, which then sold itself. That has been turned on it head and we are now a nation which produces very little but is great at inventing conceptual schemes, and is convinced that the key to success is a successful marketing ploy to convince folks they "need" something which they really don't. I am in agreement that superior products "sell themselves" in that they make the sales person's job easier. Inferior/useless products produce unethical and deceptive sales people. These principles are at least as old as the book of Proverbs in the Bible.

However, your illustrations you use to demonstrate your point are unhistorical and silly. To argue that MICROSOFT is an example of technical superiority over against salesmanship is so stupid as to be ludicrous. Bill Gates was "made" by stealing QDOS and then buying the rights to it before Paterson (the inventor) could figure out he was being conned into giving away millions of dollars. Gates himself originally told IBM he could not write an OS and told them to use CP/M. MS has had one or two good stable products, but anyone who argues that MS is an example of great technical and engineering development is a nimrod who thinks that if they can defrag their hard drive they are a computer guru. Five minutes with Linux or Apple OS will show you that MS got where they are by MARKETING, not better craftsmanship. I joke with people that MS is the most successful argument AGAINST capitalism I know of. It is enough to make me question free markets when I consider this is what the MARKET gave us (I use Linux, btw).

I think that the root of your poorly thought out objection is the true protest that 1) the USA produces much less "stuff" nowadays 2) the consequent shift to a "service" economy produced a generation who think that wealth can be produced and sustained by folks who move paper around and direct how it moves. I am in sympathy with your disdain for that and echo your longing that we go back to an economy that focuses on what we make rather than how we move it from producer to consumer.

Jim Rogers, one of the most successful traders in the world, is arguing that the best and brightest should move off Wall Street and GO INTO FARMING! He believes, and I agree, that we are headed into a worldwide food shortage that will force the shift that you are arguing (albeit in a poor way) for....., at least I THINK that is what you are arguing for at the core. If so, I agree with the root argument, but some of the implications you draw are just dumb.

 

deleted

 

btt for more enragement :cursing: