Never had a problem....course I don't have leading issues with my cast loads either.

 

No problem for me.

 

I forget the feet per-second rule.

Look it up please. I know that at a speed lead bullets become a issue in separation once out of the barrel and that is the only issue I know of.

I found this out in 2005 at Ft Benning Ga. down the firing line at the gun club a guy pulled out a S&W 500 and shot a lead bullet. The lead went down the line not down range and I was peppered with fragments of the bullet, so where 5 others to the left and right of him.

Just one of things for proper PPE!!

John

 

As long as there's no fouling in the barrel it shouldn't be an issue.

Cast fouling comes from improperly sized bullets or the lead alloy being too soft for the velocity of the bullet.

 

See... I've heard that you should shoot a few FMJ's after shooting lead to scrub the bore a bit before cleaning. Which makes sense as long as you don't have a clogged up bore. If you have a clogged up bore you're doing something WAY wrong

 

See... I've heard that you should shoot a few FMJ's after shooting lead to scrub the bore a bit before cleaning. Which makes sense as long as you don't have a clogged up bore. If you have a clogged up bore you're doing something WAY wrong

Exactly what I do. No ill effects and makes cleaning easier.

 

Cast fouling comes from improperly sized bullets or the lead alloy being too soft for the velocity of the bullet.

I've read that lead fouling is in fact most often caused by too hard of an alloy, resulting in blow-by which melts the lead. I have no direct experience in this but it sounds plausible. I expect either one could cause leading.

Sent from my phone.

 

As long as there's no fouling in the barrel it shouldn't be an issue.

Cast fouling comes from improperly sized bullets or the lead alloy being too soft for the velocity of the bullet.

This is from the Missouri Bullet Company website and it's great, it explains it all.

A common conception is that when it comes to lead bullets, harder lead equals less leading. This is a false perception! To explain this surprising statement, it is necessary to discuss the physics of getting the bullet out of the barrel and how lead residue comes to be deposited in the bore. When the powder charge ignites, pressure is generated. This pressure is measured in "copper units of pressure" (CUP) and expressed in thousand of pounds per square inch. The heavier the powder charge, the greater the CUP. Naturally, the purpose of generating pressure in the cartridge case is to force the bullet out of the case mouth and on down the barrel.

Lead is a soft metal. Its hardness is expressed on a standard scale, called the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN.) The BHN of the bullet interacts with the pressure generated by the burning powder. The mechanism of this involves the effect of the generation of thousands of pounds per square inch of pressure which causes the base of the bullet to expand, or "obturate". Properly obturated, the base will have expanded beyond its original diameter which has the effect of "sealing the bore" against the explosive pressure of the gases burning behind it. Properly sealed, and working in conjunction with the lubricant in the lube groove, the bullet will thus not allow gases to escape forward from around the base of the bullets, which prevents it from shaving lead from the bullet body and forcing it into the bore grooves (otherwise known as "leading".)

This failure to obturate ("seal the bore against onrushing gases") causes leading which is a chore to clean and is a major obstacle to accuracy.

An optimally hard lead bullet is simply one which obturates at a given pressure sufficiently to seal the bore against the gases which would otherwise "cut through" the soft lead (called "gas-cutting", forcing molten lead into your rifling. A bullet which is too hard won't obturate and seal the bore, because the gas pressure is insufficient to expand the base of the bullet. A bullet which is too soft at a given pressure will experience excessive base expansion and vaporization of the lead, causing leading.

There is a formula for optimal bullet hardness which is simple and it is worth knowing:

Optimum BHN = CUP / (1422 x .90)

The CUP of your reloads is published in the reloading manuals. Take a typical .45 ACP load, using a 200-grain LSWC bullet - 5.0 grains of Bullseye. This load develops 900 FPS and is in common use among IPSC and IDPA gunners. The reloading manual shows that the pressure generated by this load is 20,000 CUP. So, the formula for optimal bullet hardness is

20,000 / 1279.8 = 15.62

There it is! For this application - shooting a 200-grain LSWC at 900 FPS requires that you use a bullet with a BHN of 16 to 18 (round upwards a couple of BHN points for flexibility.)

You may be asking why shooters don't know much about this whole bullet hardness optimization business. The reason is basically that the large manufacturers, for ease of production, use a standard alloy for all of their cast bullet construction, an alloy which has a Brinell Hardness Number of approximately 24. Why do they do this? It's simple - one standard alloy simplifies logistics for the big manufacturers and, equally importantly, a bullet this hard ships well by standing up to getting dinged around during transportation. The fact that their bullets are too hard and cause leading and aren't very accurate because of improper obturation is something they'd really rather you weren't aware of. This explains why neither their packaging nor product information will ever refer to the BHN of their products.

 

I forget the feet per-second rule.

Look it up please. I know that at a speed lead bullets become a issue in separation once out of the barrel and that is the only issue I know of.

I found this out in 2005 at Ft Benning Ga. down the firing line at the gun club a guy pulled out a S&W 500 and shot a lead bullet. The lead went down the line not down range and I was peppered with fragments of the bullet, so where 5 others to the left and right of him.

Just one of things for proper PPE!!

John

John, I'd suspect that you were hit by shavings or unburnt powder escaping the cylinder gap.

 

I understand what you're saying. However..... if you have a properly sized bullet for your particular bore and the alloy is too soft - the lead will shear off into the rifling at at some velocity. A soft alloy may be fine for 44 special loads at a lower velocity. Charge it to a 44 magnum velocity with the same bore + bullet and it may begin to shear off in the rifling. Under repeated fire, as the barrel heats up the shear will become worse.

 

As pointed out above, all you have to do is match the hardness to the pressure. There is obviously an upper limit to how fast you can push a plain lead bullet. That's why they invented jacketed bullets.

 

As pointed out above, all you have to do is match the hardness to the pressure. There is obviously an upper limit to how fast you can push a plain lead bullet. That's why they invented jacketed bullets.

or plated, or coated, etc... technology has brought us many options these days...

 

Very interesting reading, thank you gentlemen.
I have some studying to do.

 

John, I'd suspect that you were hit by shavings or unburnt powder escaping the cylinder gap.

I was going to say the same thing. I've caught my share of lead from Model 29's shooting cast on the firing line. If anyone's shooting a Dan Wesson and I back up.

 

John, I'd suspect that you were hit by shavings or unburnt powder escaping the cylinder gap.

To be 100% honest, you might be right if such particles are large enough to be picked out with a leather man. Because that's what I did.

 

If your bore is fouled from shooting lead to the point that a jacketed bullet presents a problem, then another lead one would have problems too.

I've seen a Ruger MkIII become fouled by Remington Golden Turds so badly that subsequent shots would fragment in the barrel and wind up as spray instead of a projectile. No damage to the gun tho... go figure.

And what's wrong with Dan Wesson revolvers? Mine is a much much tighter and more accurate gun than any of my Smiths.

 

If your bore is fouled from shooting lead to the point that a jacketed bullet presents a problem, then another lead one would have problems too.

I've seen a Ruger MkIII become fouled by Remington Golden Turds so badly that subsequent shots would fragment in the barrel and wind up as spray instead of a projectile. No damage to the gun tho... go figure.

And what's wrong with Dan Wesson revolvers? Mine is a much much tighter and more accurate gun than any of my Smiths.

Yes, when adjusted correctly, they're great guns. But, some inexperienced owners don't know how to adjust the cylinder gap properly and they'll spit chunks of lead to point it's dangerous. I've had to scrape particles off my face. Lucky I was wearing glasses. It's not the gun. It's operator error.

 

Speedy Cotton,

What I've heard from the precision cast rifle shooters is that copper fouling holds on to lead. They recommend cleaning all copper fouling out before shooting lead. I have never experienced this but I'm no precision shooter either. As far as I know there are no problems running copper behind cast.

I shot Cowboy Action for 7 years where cast is all that's allowed. I have cast my own bullets for over 10 years. What I have learned from my experience is most BP bullets are pure soft lead because BP runs on a lower pressure than smokeless. Handgun bullets are a little harder because they run a little higher pressure and rifle bullets are the hardest because they run at even higher pressures. I use mine for anything from BP cartridges to pistol caliber rifle rounds. So my alloy is a 3:1 mix of wheelweights and pure lead. Most casters that use wheelweights add tin for hardness but I prefer a little softer bullet just in case I decide to shoot some BP. I have run my alloy as fast as 1400fps out of my .45 Marlin with GREAT results. Most commercial plain base hard cast bullets can take about 1700fps while a hard cast bullet with a gas check can withstand velocities up to 2700fps! As stated before though, none of these velocities are achievable with an ill fitted bullet. Before buying a bullet for any gun you should "slug" your bore and buy a bullet .001-.002" larger than your bore size.

Hope my rambling has helped,
C.S.

 

I always run a wire brush and patches before switching bullets. I figure it can't hurt but only help. My 2 cents.

 

Speedy Cotton,

What I've heard from the precision cast rifle shooters is that copper fouling holds on to lead. They recommend cleaning all copper fouling out before shooting lead. I have never experienced this but I'm no precision shooter either. As far as I know there are no problems running copper behind cast.

I shot Cowboy Action for 7 years where cast is all that's allowed. I have cast my own bullets for over 10 years. What I have learned from my experience is most BP bullets are pure soft lead because BP runs on a lower pressure than smokeless. Handgun bullets are a little harder because they run a little higher pressure and rifle bullets are the hardest because they run at even higher pressures. I use mine for anything from BP cartridges to pistol caliber rifle rounds. So my alloy is a 3:1 mix of wheelweights and pure lead. Most casters that use wheelweights add tin for hardness but I prefer a little softer bullet just in case I decide to shoot some BP. I have run my alloy as fast as 1400fps out of my .45 Marlin with GREAT results. Most commercial plain base hard cast bullets can take about 1700fps while a hard cast bullet with a gas check can withstand velocities up to 2700fps! As stated before though, none of these velocities are achievable with an ill fitted bullet. Before buying a bullet for any gun you should "slug" your bore and buy a bullet .001-.002" larger than your bore size.

Hope my rambling has helped,
C.S.

Thank you for the writeup.