loaded/unloaded/mags nearby makes no difference.

 

It's not the mags/ammo, it's where the rifle is located in relation to the driver's access. If you can access it while driving and it's concealed from view, it's illegal. If it's in plain sight or secured beyond your reach/access you're usually good.

This is only for NC mind you. State laws vary dramatically on rifle/ammo transport...

 

TY, it is always in a trunk that I cannot get to.

 

You're good to go then.

I have always wonder that if a rifle is in a gun case in the back set, will they consider that concealed?

Depends on a lot of interpretation. If the case is clearly visible you SHOULD be fine. How it latches and how easily you can access while driving would be another factor I would think...

 

I have always wonder that if a rifle is in a gun case in the back set, will they consider that concealed?

 

This is not clarified in NC law. NC has a general prohibition against carrying concealed weapons. Which means that there is technically (and legally) some latitude for a subjective interpretation.

Take a look at the NC AG letter, page 25 of the link I previously posted, for this:

"It is unlawful to transport a weapon (absent a proper permit) that is BOTH concealed and readily accessible to a person."

Also, in that same paragraph:

"Obviously, a weapon would be concealed and readily accessible, and therefore in violation of North Carolina Law, if it were placed in such areas of a vehicle as under the seat of the automobile; in a bag in the back seat; or in some other manner is covered or hidden within easy reach of an occupant of the vehicle."

If the rifle is openly laying across the back seat, then it's not concealed. Depending on how one views accessibility, it may be considered readily accessible. But it's not both. If it's openly visible, you could have it in the front seat, next to you, and that would be OK.

If the rifle is in a gun case in the back seat, then it's "concealed" with respect to "not plainly visible". However, it's not "readily accessible" in such a position in such a gun case. Also, a case of any kind that is clearly recognizable as a gun case (or sleeve or zippered rifle pouch) may also obviate the "concealed" aspect.

Now, that said...NOTHING I've posted can be considered definitive legal guidance...I'm not an attorney, and even if I were, I'm not YOUR attorney.

An officer can cite a person for nearly any violation, regardless of what the laws may say. The real question is whether or not that will hold up in court.

However, in general...typical common sense transportation of a rifle to and from a shooting range (or hunting) takes care of this. If anybody has any doubts, then simply make sure it's not BOTH concealed and readily accessible.

NC is a "must inform" state, with respect to concealed carry. Which means you're supposed to inform an officer you're interacting with if you're carrying concealed. With open carry, or open view, there is no need to "inform" because he already knows. However, common courtesy, and sensible precautions, apply as you see fit when you're transporting a rifle in open view.

Just remember...think before you engage your mouth. Starting off with "I HAVE A GUN" would be what we call "the wrong foot". Be smart...start off with something more along the lines of "I'm going target shooting at the range and I have a rifle in the back seat."

 

Since we're on this topic, what about if I separate the upper and lower? Does making the gun inoperable have any bearing on whether it's a concealed firearm or not?
Sometimes I ride a motorcycle to the range and carry my AR disassembled in a backpack, but it's definitely "on my person".

 

Since we're on this topic, what about if I separate the upper and lower? Does making the gun inoperable have any bearing on whether it's a concealed firearm or not?
Sometimes I ride a motorcycle to the range and carry my AR disassembled in a backpack, but it's definitely "on my person".

Legally, the lower is the firearm and no determination is made as to fit of function by the law. So a stripped lower under your seat is a concealed weapon. Concealed rifles are a no-no here. The backpack as I understand it would be illegally concealed IMO(for what that's worth)...

Unless it was locked somehow and/or labeled maybe..? Too much left to the officer's judgment for my liking in this case especially...

The upper can be in your pants for all it matters though....

 

i think it would be safe to think that any long case in a car would not be thought of as easily accessible.


i have always had long gun cases piled up in my back seat, and sometimes in the front seat due to lack of room.

the key is that if you get pulled over you dont act like a jerk, and try do something to put the officer at ease. my advice to everyone is to put both hands out the window while the officer is approaching so that he or she can see your not a threat. i actually do this when i get pulled over, license in one hand concealed permit in the other. most cops are very great full of this, and 99% of the time even tho i was speeding i got off with a warning. the one time i did get a ticket it was for an expired tag

 

i think it would be safe to think that any long case in a car would not be thought of as easily accessible.

i have always had long gun cases piled up in my back seat, and sometimes in the front seat due to lack of room.

the key is that if you get pulled over you dont act like a jerk, and try do something to put the officer at ease. my advice to everyone is to put both hands out the window while the officer is approaching so that he or she can see your not a threat. i actually do this when i get pulled over, license in one hand concealed permit in the other. most cops are very great full of this, and 99% of the time even tho i was speeding i got off with a warning. the one time i did get a ticket it was for an expired tag

I get out of the car, spread eagle on the pavement and scream don't shoot.

 

The others have explained the legalities pretty well. But just to add. An officer can charge you with anything. Whether or not it sticks is another matter.

With that said, as long as it isn't locked and loaded and hidden AND you have consented to a search and he finds it then it's a non issue. I've been pulled over a few times and have been pulled over with others a few times. Officers have seen shotgun cases in the back and the only reaction has been "y'all going hunting!" Leading to a short conversation on hunting trips. The time I was pulled heading to the range my back seat looked like I was heading into combat and all the officer said was "have fun at the range."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

For NC (NC AG letter, revised December, 2015):

http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299-a2a7-4ae5-99fd-9018262f64ac/NC-Firearms-gun-Laws.aspx

Look at page 25.

There is no provision for whether the rifle is loaded or unloaded, or whether separate magazines are to be loaded or unloaded.

 

http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299-a2a7-4ae5-99fd-9018262f64ac/NC-Firearms-gun-Laws.aspx

"Obviously, a weapon would be concealed and readily accessible, and therefore in
violation of North Carolina law, if it were placed in such areas of a vehicle as under the seat of
the automobile; in a bag in the back seat; or in some other manner is covered or hidden within
the easy reach of an occupant of the vehicle."

The section that I put in bold print, is what has always concerned me. I always feared that a gun case may qualify.

 

If the weapon is concealed near, in close proximity to, or within the convenient control
and access of an occupant, which would allow him/her to use the weapon quickly, then a fair
probability exists that the occupant is in violation of the law.

This is not strictly from the statute but the AG has put the bold part out there so I'm going to use it to my advantage when I ride with my backpack. My defense will be "but you said..."

 

I have an extended cab pick up,so even on the the backseat it's still accessible. I alway put the ammo up front in my range bag, but couldn't a police officer deem this illegal due to the close proximity of the rifle and ammo and the back windows are tinted preventing him from looking on and seeing the rifle

 

An officer can make whatever interpretation he wishes at any time. Whether his interpretation holds up in court would have to be seen.

But I believe you're over thinking this.

It has to be BOTH CONCEALED AND READILY ACCESSIBLE. Not simply "accessible". Not simply "out of sight".

And the presence or absence of ammunition, as well as whether or not the firearm is loaded, does not factor into this. NC does not care about this with respect to "concealed and readily accessible".

You can have the gun loaded and in open view in the front of your truck on your dash or the seat next to you and that's OK.

The context spoken of, and the way the AG discusses it, is "concealed" with respect to a "concealed weapon which is readily accessible for use as a weapon". The full context here is that you have a concealed weapon on our about your person and you can readily access it for use as a deadly weapon.

Remember, NC is a "must inform" state and open carry is legal there. You "must inform" an officer you're interacting with IF you have a concealed weapon on you. You don't have to do this otherwise, because open carry is legal...and so long as said firearm (long guns included) is out in the open, you're legal.

If you have a rifle laying across your back seat, it's in open view to anyone who should look. Tinted windows, in the full context of an encounter, does not necessarily factor into this as a major determining point. It's not "concealed" with any sort of an obvious intent as a "concealed weapon ready for imminent use" and, laying in the back seat, it's not readily accessible.

(Quotations marks liberally used by me to indicate a concept...not necessarily quoting any NC laws or AG statements.)

NOW...that said...we can engineer any number of scenarios in which tinted windows WOULD factor into this. For example, windows that are tinted so heavily that an officer cannot see that a person is riding in the back seat with said rifle laying across his lap. At the very least, this may be cause for concern by the officer if/when he DOES find out about it.

There are no guarantees on any given encounter with law enforcement. Such guarantees, like the concept of absolute safety, simply do not exist. However, compliance with the written laws, a bit of common sense, and a bit of common courtesy with any law enforcement encounter will go a long, long way towards negating any problems.

 

My opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid for it, is that if a rifle is in an obvious gun case then it is not concealed. If someone can look in your car and say, "Hey, look at that gun case." then it is the same as "Hey, look at that rifle." A case is probably the most common firearm accessory. Every range I have ever been to requires you to have your firearms in a case until you get to the line. So does that mean that everyone who does not have a CCHP is breaking the law carrying concealed without a permit by going to the range? Of course not.

I think we go back and forth too much about technicalities here. Just act with common sense, remain calm and respectful and go about your day.

 

It does not matter what it is in, a rifle case is the same as under a blanket. If the officer cannot recognize it as a firearm and it is on your person or in close proximity allowing easy access it is concealed. Put a lock on the case and it now is stored and transported.

 

When I took my concealed carry class many moons ago, we were instructed that the concealed carry permit only applies to handguns. It does not apply to knives, rifles, shotguns, and other such weapons. I generally carry a rifle openly on the passenger side in plain sight and have never had any problems going through license check points. I also generally carry one pistol concealed in my pocket and one concealed in the center console.

 

When I took my concealed carry class many moons ago, we were instructed that the concealed carry permit only applies to handguns.

True dat. 6 months ago if you'd told me I was going to be considering an AR "pistol" with an "arm brace" I'd have questioned your sanity. Thought being they're not really good for anything. Too big for concealed carry and too small to be a rifle. But since then things have changed on the social front. There is a distinct possibility of driving unknowingly into a nasty crowd situation in any city in the U.S. these days with members of an ugly mob willing to blame me for every misfortune that has visited they're miserable little lives. Having the above "pistol" at hand ready to send 30 rounds rapidly down a 10 to 14 inch barrel mounted with a red dot and the ability to slam another 30 into battery quickly suddenly doesn't sound like a half bad idea. And it's beagle legal to ride next to me in the truck or car under whatever light cover is available. Just another concealed handgun covered by my CCL.

 

Traveling with rifle and loaded mags?

Yes...everywhere I go.

 

Personally I think the fourth and fifth amendments were made specifically to deal with dumbass laws like this.

 

Got a hatch back. But it has a 'security cover' over the cargo area so it is out of sight out of reach.
Rifles in soft side tactical cases. Unloaded but with loaded mags in the pouches on the cases.
Our Patriot doesn't have a cover over the back. So to avoid any ambiguity, I do not use that for going to the range at Uwharrie unless I'm going by myself or with no back seat passengers.

 

You're right. I don't believe anything is true in all 50 states simultaneously. The verbiage I can find for NC is "......(2) Handgun. - A firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand..." So absent a buttstock and without length restriction an AR is a pistol for the time being. Of course that doesn't mean that interpretation will stand forever.

From the ATF regs of 2014:
"....(29) The term "handgun" means- (A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and (B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled......."

So for NC and Federal purposes it would APPEAR an AR without buttstock and a barrel shorter than 16" is a handgun, until it is changed. And so far the arm brace is not considered a butt stock. Quite a convoluted group of regs and definitions and that's just a start.

Not trying to hijack this thread so I'll aplologize in advance. But if anybody else has any hard definition of "handgun" according to any state law or federal law please post it.

The information on NC possibly excluding a AR pistol from CHP is from some notes from the justice academy where they had talked to a judge and the judge said it was pretty grey area. Judge said basically that an AR Pistol with a foregrip even though it is still considered a handgun per federal regs it could be interpreted differently by a judge in NC and the judge said it could be seen as designed for using both hands. Right now it appears to be fine but could change and could put a person in a tight place. Not saying it is law or trying to cause an argument just want everyone who considers carrying it to be aware of the conversations so they can make their own informed decision.

As posted previously an AR Pistol is not concealed in SC per their laws could be the same in other states but would have to search the rules and any CHP holder should do that prior to travelling to a state they are not familiar with.

 

The information on NC possibly excluding a AR pistol from CHP is from some notes from the justice academy where they had talked to a judge and the judge said it was pretty grey area. Judge said basically that an AR Pistol with a foregrip even though it is still considered a handgun per federal regs it could be interpreted differently by a judge in NC and the judge said it could be seen as designed for using both hands. Right now it appears to be fine but could change and could put a person in a tight place. Not saying it is law or trying to cause an argument just want everyone who considers carrying it to be aware of the conversations so they can make their own informed decision.

As posted previously an AR Pistol is not concealed in SC per their laws could be the same in other states but would have to search the rules and any CHP holder should do that prior to travelling to a state they are not familiar with.

Judge would then be determining Contenders, Encores and XP100s to no longer be handguns and changing law retroactively. All those handguns have foregrips. Hell, ALL handguns are designed for using both hands. Thats the only way I can hit anything with a handgun. I really hope we don't have many of those "grey area" judges. Sounds like he might be more comfortable in Kalifornia. Right now in NC to buy an Encore, XP100, Ruger 22 Charger or AR pistol to name a few you must have either a concealed carry license (which is for a handgun only) or a handgun purchase permit issued by your county sheriff. That means the state legal system is viewing all these as handguns. Pretty straight forward. Sounds like SC has determined there are two categories of handguns; some allowed for concealed carry, some not. I'm not aware of that distinction being made in NC and have searched for it. For now it seems NC is working only under Federal definition. Handled a SIG AR "Federal handgun" with brace this afternoon. Sweet.

And I really hate hearing about that kind of judge. Really, really hate it. Dimokraps.

 

It does not matter what it is in, a rifle case is the same as under a blanket. If the officer cannot recognize it as a firearm and it is on your person or in close proximity allowing easy access it is concealed. Put a lock on the case and it now is stored and transported.

I respectfully disagree. "Concealed" incorporates an element of intent, so having a rifle in what is readily identified as a gun case in the back seat is distinguishable from in a tennis bag or under a blanket in the back seat. Obviously an officer could disagree with me, but wasn't there a federal judge that ruled on this, maybe in VA a couple years ago, saying that if the officer had probable cause to search because he reasonably believed that there was a gun that the officer could not concurrently argue that the gun was concealed?

 

I just know what they teach at the NC Justice Academy and it is the same thing they teach officers there and put out in there publications and intent has nothing to do with it. If you cannot see a part of the gun that allows you to readily determine it is a gun then it is concealed. It could be in a gun case that says "Guns in Here" and it is still concealed according to them. Because only you know if there is a gun in there or a bazooka or a tennis racket. Could you win in court, possibly but that will cost you time and money. So all I am saying is use common sense and don't put yourself in the situation when a simple lock on the case removes the issue completely.

 

There is nothing I can find in North Carolina law that would give any judge legal authority to rule a handgun in or out with regard to concealed carry. The AR pistols are treated as handguns under NC law. There is nothing in our concealed carry permit requirements that either rules in or rules out the AR pistols due to any of their unique characteristics. The only weapon characteristic for concealed carry in NC that I can find is that the weapon be a handgun. The AR, XP100, etc. meet that legal requirement whether or not they have a foregrip. The judge and those in the know are reading requirements into the law that do not exist. To go down that road, none of the weapons I've mentioned have a buttstock so can't be considered a shoulder fired weapon. And again, there is nothing in existing NC law that I can find that further defines "handgun" beyond what federal law outlines or establishes categories of handguns for the purpose of concealed carry. Activist judges reading into laws their own wish lists do all of us a disservice. These judges and their unlawful opinions should be opposed at every opportunity. Not trying to be a hardhead here and I'll leave further comments to others. But allowing judges freedom to modify unambiguous existing law according to their whim is not something to accept.

 

Don't travel in a state park... A friend had a lot of trouble getting stopped and having a loaded AR.