[11B CIB]

The information you received is 100 % incorrect. Check your ATF regulations guide, page 64, 478.124, 5 (F). Contact your local field office or the Charlotte office at 704-716-1800 and they will verify that it is 100 % legal to ship a suppressor to the transferee on the approved form 4

He listed the only caveat in which it is legal to ship the suppressor: the 4473 has to be filled out at the CLEO agency in order to verify it is a legitimate purchase. The dealer can't just mail the blank 4473 along with the stamp and can to the buyer, which IS illegal.

 

[tsconver]

If you read what tar heel posted it agrees with what I said. You cannot mail one copy of a 4473 and then ship the can. The local Cleo has to be involved which is what the atf office told me. There is also a waiting period.

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[TARHEELSTATE]

You may want to reread it again and contact the ATF. There is no CLEO sign off required whatsoever. The transferee does not have to fill out the 4473 at the CLEO office. After the dealer recieves the 4473 back from the transferee, a copy is then sent to the CLEO, then the wait is 7 days. After the 7th day, the dealer can then ship the suppressor directly to the transferee. Anyone that disagrees should actually contact an inspector with the ATF. Reference 478.124 5(f).

 

[tsconver]

You may want to reread it again and contact the ATF. There is no CLEO sign off required whatsoever. The transferee does not have to fill out the 4473 at the CLEO office. After the dealer recieves the 4473 back from the transferee, a copy is then sent to the CLEO, then the wait is 7 days. After the 7th day, the dealer can then ship the suppressor directly to the transferee. Anyone that disagrees should actually contact an inspector with the ATF. Reference 478.124 5(f).

I had not read it but had talk to the Greensboro office. They said it had to be filled out at a Cleo. So they were wrong. But it is still a hassle and what was being indicated in this thread and some private conversations was that one copy of a 4473 was being filled out and the suppressor sent immediately with no Cleo involvement which not legal.

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[HP468]

Does the CLEO get a copy of the 4473 when using a trust as well or is that only when purchasing as an individual?

 

[teriohio]

I called the atf this morning and she said there is no cleo involvement.

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[tsconver]

You may want to reread it again and contact the ATF. There is no CLEO sign off required whatsoever. The transferee does not have to fill out the 4473 at the CLEO office. After the dealer recieves the 4473 back from the transferee, a copy is then sent to the CLEO, then the wait is 7 days. After the 7th day, the dealer can then ship the suppressor directly to the transferee. Anyone that disagrees should actually contact an inspector with the ATF. Reference 478.124 5(f).

I doubt I would ever use this exception. But where on the 4473 does one list the Cleo and their address like the exception descibes? There is no place for it.

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[TARHEELSTATE]

Yes they do. The trustee who is in charge of the trust is the one that will be receiving the items held in trust. A copy is mailed to the CLEO just like a copy of an FFL application is mailed to the CLEO. The CLEO does nothing with it except file it away.

 

[TARHEELSTATE]

I have the transferee list that information in box 30c.

 

[tsconver]

Does the CLEO get a copy of the 4473 when using a trust as well or is that only when purchasing as an individual?

Cleo never gets a copy or at least it is not required. I suppose they could copy it when they sign it for an individual purchase but there is no requirement for them to make one or you to provide one.

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[tsconver]

I have the transferee list that information in box 30c.

Seems reasonable. Still seems like a hassle getting two copies and sending to local Cleo then waiting 7 days and then keeping up with the extra certified letter information. Plus the extra cost of shipping and mailing. Plus I just like meeting my customers face to face and shaking their hand.

And it adds a couple of weeks to a already long process by the time you do all the mailing and shipping.

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[HP468]

Yes they do. The trustee who is in charge of the trust is the one that will be receiving the items held in trust. A copy is mailed to the CLEO just like a copy of an FFL application is mailed to the CLEO. The CLEO does nothing with it except file it away.

Was not aware of this, thought by going the trust route the CLEO was kept completely out of the loop and had no knowledge of what a trust owned. Thanks for the clarification. Is the seven day wait to potentially catch a person with recent convection that may prohibit ownership?

 

[tsconver]

Yes they do. The trustee who is in charge of the trust is the one that will be receiving the items held in trust. A copy is mailed to the CLEO just like a copy of an FFL application is mailed to the CLEO. The CLEO does nothing with it except file it away.

I think things are getting blurred. The only time a Cleo is notified is when the 4473 is completed via the mail. If the 4473 is done in person there is no Cleo notification whether it is a trust or an individual. Of course if it was an individual the Cleo signed off on it originally.

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[TARHEELSTATE]

It is simply an easier way for a customer that lives a good distance away from the selling dealer to receive their suppressor. Most customers would rather drive a few hours to pick up their suppressor. For a customer that lives for example 5 hours away from the dealer, this route benefits those customers.

 

[TARHEELSTATE]

We don"t charge our customers any additional fees for shipping or insurance if they would like the suppressor shipped to them.

 

[tsconver]

We don"t charge our customers any additional fees for shipping or insurance if they would like the suppressor shipped to them.

Just did a check. This will add a month to the process if you follow the law.
Here is how. Say you start on Monday and mail forms to your customer. They get them Wednesday and complete and mail back the same day. You get them on Friday and fill in the ffl part. 1 week elapsed. You then mail a copy to their Cleo via return receipt mail. It arrives at Cleo on Wednesday and you get return receipt back the next Friday. 2 weeks elapsed. Now you wait a week for any response from Cleo. 3 weeks elapsed. You mail suppressor on the following Monday customer gets it Wednesday. 3.5 week's elapsed.

Do customers really choose this option. Most of mine are out the door and half way to my business before we hang up from me notifying them their stamp is approved.

Help me If I am missing something.

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[teriohio]

Just did a check. This will add a month to the process if you follow the law.
Here is how. Say you start on Monday and mail forms to your customer. They get them Wednesday and complete and mail back the same day. You get them on Friday and fill in the ffl part. 1 week elapsed. You then mail a copy to their Cleo via return receipt mail. It arrives at Cleo on Wednesday and you get return receipt back the next Friday. 2 weeks elapsed. Now you wait a week for any response from Cleo. 3 weeks elapsed. You mail suppressor on the following Monday customer gets it Wednesday. 3.5 week's elapsed.

Do customers really choose this option. Most of mine are out the door and half way to my business before we hang up from me notifying them their stamp is approved.

Help me If I am missing something.

Sent from a drone circling your location.

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[TARHEELSTATE]

You had stated in a previous post that it was illegal to ship suppressors.
You realize now that it is not illegal to ship suppressors to a customer.
Yes we have customers who live 3 to 6 hours away from us and we offer this option to them as a service.
What you are missing is that it is the choice of the customer.

 

[tsconver]

You had stated in a previous post that it was illegal to ship suppressors.
You realize now that it is not illegal to ship suppressors to a customer.
Yes we have customers who live 3 to 6 hours away from us and we offer this option to them as a service.
What you are missing is that it is the choice of the customer.

I already acknowledge that, but it is not as simple as some were led to believe and it requires Cleo involvement. Enough said on this and I may offer it to my customers but I doubt any will wait that long.

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[Ryan198169]

GOOD NEWS FOR ME! Making my way to Durham after work.